Ryan Miller: Full Podcast Transcript

Host: Maximiliano Fabres

Guest: Ryan Miller

Location: Bristol, UK

Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvR6ipZD_sk&pp=0gcJCaMLAYcqIYzv Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/episode/48zQ8Y0il67yOcENQpQdeD?si=4cae0f2996104a13

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Maximiliano: Hello guys, welcome back to Beyond the Horizon podcast, the podcast where you expand your horizons of knowledge. Today with me, uh Ryan Millett, a apprentice at for a legal firm here in Bristol. So, Ryan, tell us a little bit about yourself.  

Ryan: Yeah, so I am a solicitor apprentice. Now, I've been doing it for 3 years. Well, will be soon to be 3 years in September. Started out straight from A levels, took no gap year in that. And yeah, pretty much just been at solid and it uh ever since I started out because we do year-long seats. Did my first seat in dispute resolution. So, that's when a company sues another company or gets sued in the courts or like other stuff like inquiry stuff. So, you may have seen something like post office inquiry, COVID inquiry, that sort of thing. Um is usually handled the sort of buyer disputes team. Um second year, I did pensions, which essentially handles pension schemes. We advise them. It could be potentially we advise the company of the pension scheme or we advise the pension scheme itself. There is which to what there I didn't have this knowledge before, but there is a dividing line between the trustees and the actual companies where their goals may not align. Yeah, I know. It's quite Yeah, it's Because the trustees goal is essentially to ensure best savings and companies goal is obviously not to spend as much. Um  

Maximiliano: So, yeah.  

Ryan: So, yeah.  

Maximiliano: Yeah, exactly. Depending on which side you are, you could be advising on like two different things really.  

Ryan: Pensions are Yeah. devious. devious. Yeah, so third year now currently in projects right now and yeah, I've been doing that for roughly about 6 months now. We do a bunch of sort of well projects essentially. So, that could be anything like wind farms, helping that being made. Um, biofuels well, sustainable aviation fuel. It's kind of a varied department. You can do like various works like we have a rail team as well. They do a lot of rail.  

Maximiliano: I'm guessing it's like um, government projects and stuff like that or like public projects.  

Ryan: Can be, but it can also be done by private. Honestly, depends. They do a bit of both. So, government may for instance want to have like for instance, they may have a rail project that's of high importance. And they like maybe get a company to handle that project or a building or whatever. And then we would kind of handle that sort of process and like getting all the sort of permissions that you need and all that sort of stuff. Licensing, my favorite subject. I swear to procuring like which company is delivering services. So, it could be like for instance buying materials from a certain company. We would handle that sort of ins and outs of that project.  

Maximiliano: Yeah. Ryan, I got to tell you the reason why I brought you to the podcast is because I got plenty of questions that I wanted to ask you. And I got to tell you most of them are not on the list that I already sent you. Okay? So my best to answer. But okay, look I'll take it down a notch and first ask you a little bit about yourself and like how the hell did you get into all this? Legal apprenticeship, I've never heard that in my life.  

Ryan: Yes, so I mean legal apprenticeship was only an option since 2016 really. Like the firms that did it, so my firm Burges Salmon was kind of a trailblazer in that cuz they were the first well among the first law firms to kind of offer up that role and it's well been popular ever since. But in terms of like actual people that have qualified for that route now, I think we're only about three year well three different years of people qualifying for that route now. So it's still it's very much traveled upon as a path now, but it's let's just say it's not as in terms of experience as the uni tried and true way.  

Maximiliano: I am yeah, we we both can agree that uni is not always the right path. It's not always the right path for some. It depends on obviously like what you want to get out of it really. Um but going back to the question in terms of how I got obviously to where I am now. I kind of it's kind of an interesting question because I had two sort of I had both pathways on the cards cuz I was determined at the end of A levels that I wasn't going to do a gap year. I just didn't feel like sitting out traveling or doing what everyone else does on the gap year. When did you finish school?  

Ryan: So I finished school in 2023 I want to say.  

Maximiliano: Okay. So like end COVID end of COVID.  

Ryan: May 2023 and then you start you start doing the apprenticeship sort of application process long before that. So like we're talking September in like 2022 is when that whole process starts up usually. But yeah, I actually had sort of offers from both I had offers and also had apprentice offers. The apprentice offers came much after though, which yeah, uh caused some stress cuz I'm had to tell student finance, "Sorry, I'm not going down the uni route." and that was a very very long-winded conversation than what it should have been. So, I ended up having both and I'm kind of pragmatic in the way I sort of viewed it when I had offers on the table for both. And that was I end of day it just went down to what can I be offered from both experiences.  

Maximiliano: Yeah, like how did you how did you end up deciding? I guess.  

Ryan: So so so with like A levels for instance, you're told uni's like the be all end all. It's utterly amazing to be there, great uni experience, you get to learn as well, which kind of it means that at least in my opinion, it's kind of similar to what you've already known cuz obviously when you're doing school or whatever, you're studying the topic, but you're not seeing it in practice.  

Maximiliano: Yeah, not so which I hated.  

Ryan: Yeah, whereas some some some people prefer that. And then obviously they'll get into practice when they're well versed in the topic, whereas the apprenticeship is very much you get versed in the topic learning everything practically and you may not have the background knowledge of it. Like for instance, I started off in dispute resolution when I first joined and I had zero knowledge of the background of the area of law because it just wasn't something that you learn cuz sometimes what you learn is not joined up with the department you go to in terms of the area of law.  

Maximiliano: Yeah.  

Ryan: Um so yeah, the apprenticeship is very much sort of full blame responsibility, whereas obviously uni isn't that route. And then when it came to the practical benefits, obviously uni experience is one that's cited as a key benefit.  

Maximiliano: Yeah.  

Ryan: Apprenticeship, you get paid to basically learn and you don't have sort of the uni debt, which is a major plus. Uni drawback, that uni debt. And that was kind of a main sticking point for me in particular because I was like the way I viewed it is when I looked at it, I was like, I don't really want to get into a bunch of uni debt for just the uni experience. Like, in my mind, I was like, if I want to go out like partying or whatever and enjoying life, I could very much do that while I'm actually being paid.  

Maximiliano: Like, And he's actually doing it as well.  

Ryan: Yeah, and I'm actually doing it because we have very much like a level freedom that we do get afforded. Like, I have weekends off, so I can pursue my goals, I can pursue whatever I want in that time. So, that I have that spare time sort of protected. And in uni, obviously, you have that same degree and you probably have a lot more free time because obviously you're not working.  

Maximiliano: A lot more free time.  

Ryan: But, but it obviously comes with the caveat, for instance, you have to deal with all that negative stuff of that experience, the debt, the fact as well that you literally have to be kind of very careful of how you manage your money as well.  

Maximiliano: Yeah.  

Ryan: That you get given in terms of like the government funding of the loans and stuff like that that you get in terms of maintenance upkeep, that sort of thing. So, yeah, end of days with me, it just came down to viewing the practical benefits. I liked the fact that I was finally going to be able to learn about something while not being in a classroom, that was massively appealing to me.  

Maximiliano: Mhm.  

Ryan: And then I also felt like I just kind of yeah, like I said, wasn't a big fan of the uni debt really. So, then I actually ended up having to decide of which firm I would go to next basically from that perspective cuz I did have multiple offers. And when you have multiple offers, it's kind of scary because obviously law firms' cultures can vary in terms of like and also how they even operate the apprenticeship.  

Maximiliano: Mhm.  

Ryan: So, with that, the reason why I chose Burges is that they're sort of like they're friendly and stuff like that of like just stuff to just basically tell you everything about what they do and stuff like that was massively appealing when we get went to do the assessment centers and that sort of thing.  

Maximiliano: Yeah.  

Ryan: And yeah, that stood out to me. I was like, this is probably the law firm for me because the whole point of the apprenticeship, at least the way I view it, is to learn while on the job and you want to go to environment that maximizes that potential of you learning the best you can in that year. And when you have lawyers that are so approachable and you can talk to you for minutes on end about what they do, learn what they do.  

Maximiliano: Oh, I love that.  

Ryan: It it is Man. is an amazing experience.  

Maximiliano: Well, I told you before we started the podcast that I did a couple of weeks working in a law firm.  

Ryan: Yeah.  

Maximiliano: Yeah. It's one of the best experiences that I've ever had in my life. And the best thing that I had mainly because they were doing an acquisition at the time. So, the owner of the firm was doing an acquisition of like a huge mall or some like some like random ass thing. He wanted to do like a mall not for cars, but like for bikes in Chile because well, Chile is so long and like there's a huge biker community. It's It's a beautiful thing to do because he was spoke speaking about merging merging or acquiring some stuff, merging some other things. Since then, I've been thinking and thinking and thinking about acquisitions and mergers and the legal side as well which is which was  

Ryan: side can be a very interesting topic, especially if you get to see as well.  

Maximiliano: Yeah.  

Ryan: Quite nasty though. It's It's nasty.  

Maximiliano: Yeah, I probably should also go into my experience as well with how I actually got the apprenticeship, I suppose.  

Ryan: Yeah, sure.  

Maximiliano: So, before you go into that, could you please light a candle, a small little candle?  

Ryan: used a lighter in Well, first time. No, first time. So, this will be interesting. Yeah. There we go. There we go. Yeah, so going to get apprenticeship is a whole process. So, it can't Yeah, the process, exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They've I know for a fact they've changed Well, my firm's changed how they've done it, but the process that I went through was like quite a very long-trodden path. They opened the apprenticeship, sort of the usual timeline is that they open the applications on like their website in today in September. No, in September. And then it closes in January, I think it was. Okay. And then you in the application you would fill out obviously it's like a regular job application. You fill out questions of being like, "Oh, yeah, why this firm? Why the interest in commercial law?" That sort of thing.  

Maximiliano: god.  

Ryan: You you It gets worse. I got to say I hate that corporate jargon. But yeah.  

Maximiliano: I just hate it with my life. It just doesn't matter It's not relevant, mate.  

Ryan: Corporate jargon is very much a key theme here, but you do that in any job really. But it's to kind of know why realistically you would be a good fit really is cuz obviously they're going to want to hire someone that's genuinely interested in commercial law, genuinely wants to work at the firm, and that sort of thing. So, you would answer that, then they whittle down quite a lot of the candidates on that stage. And then if you're successful, like why I was, you get called in to do a thing called assessment center. Now, this is really interesting. Assessment center is where you get called into the office for a day, and you'll be with a bunch of the other candidates. So, random strangers from all over the country that you've never met before. The way we got started off is they we had 15 minutes sort of like talk before in the first assessment center, like to get to know people. You speak to people on your table. Be like, "Oh, yeah, where are you from? What's your name? That sort of thing."  

Maximiliano: To know to know a little bit like the amount of people. So, how many people apply? How many people do get through?  

Ryan: So, we hire On average, we hire four. There are some years that are some exceptions where you may get like apprentice year group of five because, you know, someone left like in one of the other years and they can't make up numbers, yeah. But the usual number is four people in total.  

Maximiliano: So you hire four people, how many people are in the interview? Like I said, the apprenticeship is going up in popularity each year, so these numbers are probably increased, but when I did it, I got revealed in terms of total number of people that had applied.  

Ryan: Mhm. It was 1,000, odd. I'm not even joking.  

Maximiliano: 1,000?  

Ryan: It was roughly 1,000, yeah.  

Maximiliano: So you can either go into millions of Well, how much is it? 100,000 to get a law degree?  

Ryan: Uh basically probably not that high, but it's still like quite a lot. Like I said, I was looking to be in thousands of debt anyways, like just first year and that was like the  

Maximiliano: or that or an apprenticeship and of course  

Ryan: apprenticeship. They're both highly competitive anyways, cuz  

Maximiliano: Yeah, I can tell. 1,000 and that that was not competitive. Even if you go the uni route, you still have to get a trainee uh training contract, which is super competitive as well, cuz that's like a tried and true way. So both ways is super competitive anyways, but we're coming back to the assessment center.  

Ryan: Yeah, okay. So you get those 50 minutes to like know  

Maximiliano: minutes to talk to people and whatnot, and then in my experience they all pulled for a group task, and that essentially is you get spread of random documents. HR's in the room as well, cuz they're obviously kind of in the recruitment process.  

Ryan: watching you.  

Maximiliano: Yeah, and think it was as well a lawyer as well. It may have been a partner, not too sure though in terms of details on that. They were also in the room and they would note take basically essentially if everything, cuz like from your communications with one another, that sort of thing, they would note take everything  

Ryan: Got that. Okay. But in this group task, we had dog you basically got given like paper sheet and it was like of a random scenario and it was like the firm were like considering buying XYZ options, and there's like nine in total, and it's like read through the every single option, consider which one's the best essentially. And then you've got to do a whole presentation of why it's the best over the other options. What they're looking for is obviously how well you work in a team, how well you communicate with one another and stuff like that. And a thing that was funny in my experience, none of the people that I had talked to on 15 minutes were a part of my group. So, you had to do all the introductions really quickly as well cuz you only had like I think it was either a half an hour or an hour to do all of that. And so, you're like, "Hi, I'm like Ryan. I'm nice to meet you." and then quickly just go on to the task. Yeah. It was mental. And then that was only the first part of it. The second part of it was it was prioritization task. Well, that with that one, you get handled a series of scenario-based questions. Like one being like, "You need to print off and then send off a court bundle to the court. Mhm. Uh but the printer's broken. So, you need to pri- uh you need to obviously prioritize going to a working printer and get it done by close of play. So, how high do you like do that?" And in this prioritization task, you also have to give a reason of why you prioritized one thing higher than the others. So, that was the one that we had to do. I think we got about 15 or 30 minutes to do that.  

Maximiliano: Mhm.  

Ryan: And then the other one is the interview. The interview would be with member of well, Anything written here or not? There is There is There is a written Well, there is a written task as well. Our application is well is written as well in terms of giving the reason as well. You have to write that down. But yeah, with the interview, essentially you will be in there with member of our HR team, their called people team. And you'll also be in there with a partner. And they will obviously write down everything that you say as well. Like your body language, characteristics, and that sort of thing in the interview as well probably do play an so as well in terms of how confident you are when given answer. Kind of on a similar touching point to the application of like why here, like why you applying here, why the interest commercial law, that sort of thing. The general sense is it's make sure that you're a fit for the firm would probably be the reason why. You once you do that, that's roughly I think an hour long in terms of an interview, so it's quite heavy in terms of it. You need to stay quite engaged through that and it's going to be quite hard talking for an hour straight on like questions that like you weren't even really briefed on. And then the last one that we did was a written task and that written task was actually caused quite a bit of commotion actually because in the scenario we were told you need to write an email to a court. And but a but a bunch of us a bunch of us obviously too when we were given this brief, right? A bunch of us were like, "Right, so which court?" Because all of us are legal based. We all have like some legal background for research and all that sort of stuff.  

Maximiliano: Yeah, you guys understand the yes no thing.  

Ryan: "Okay, right, which court?" So we spent I must have been panicking so hard cuz I was like I have no idea what this brief is. I have no idea which court this is going to. So in the I remember in the end I just ended up going off the mindset being like, "You know what? Everyone else here is also panicking as well, so I'm just going to write to the court." It's like literally as like the address to it. And then cuz I'm like surely they just meant that unambiguous for that reason. I mean I got in, so I would assume I was right in that, but yeah, that's the first assessment center done. They whittled down obviously quite a few people there. Then you have the second one. This one probably happens like a month or two after first one. This one you get invited to the office again for a day and you actually at first you basically it's obviously a smaller number of people this time, so you don't really meet like anyone. It's kind of just you solo pretty much. Like you get picked up from reception, you get paired with an apprentice, you shadow that apprentice for a few hours basically of doing a task. And  

Maximiliano: what what what what are they trying to do there? It feeds into the rest of the assessments. Can I how do you learn? How quickly do you learn, stuff like that.  

Ryan: also just like learning just generally about when you learn. It could be like anything you're shadowing the apprentice on, really.  

Maximiliano: Yeah.  

Ryan: basically picks out his sort of the topic or whatever, and then you would get asked about it in the interview, which happened later. But, you do also do something as well while you're with the apprentice, which is a sort of Well, it's another task again, but in this one that we were given, it was like a contract, and it had numerous errors in it. So, we're talking spelling errors, so grammatical mistakes,  

Maximiliano: legal errors, like something that the point of it just was incorrect,  

Ryan: Yeah. formatting issues. So, for instance, it would say like, "Oh, yeah, here's the table." And like this makeshift contract that they had like had us look at in this document, and the table, for instance, wouldn't be there. So, you would have to make the table.  

Maximiliano: I knew You you you got given an hour to do this, as well. Was it  

Ryan: And you had to try to correct as many mistakes as possible. I'm 99.9% sure that it was impossible to do it within that time, cuz there were that many errors. I didn't end up completing it, so I mean, I could be biased in that.  

Maximiliano: I mean, but you still passed. So, like, you're good, you're good.  

Ryan: But, I think they're looking for like what errors you spot in that sort of like How many what error type of errors did you spot the most? Did you like when, for instance, you encounter a formatting issue, and you're told, "Oh, yeah, make a table." pretty much, because obviously there's no table there. Did you like format it correctly, and all that sort of stuff? They're kind of looking basically for a sort of the I guess like the starting skill set that you would need to be a lawyer, probably,  

Maximiliano: Yeah.  

Ryan: in terms of like rough basis of how to work a word document, that sort of thing. Learning what to look for, any sort of legal background if you pick up on any of the legal points that were incorrect,  

Maximiliano: Mhm.  

Ryan: that sort of thing. You get your hour to do it, as well. And you're still with the apprentice, as well. So, they're they're monitoring you. It's basically sort of like a test scenario, cuz obviously you can't cheat or anything like that. And, like I said, it's hours, so it's strict on timings, as well. And then, once you've done that, you get pulled into the interview.  

Maximiliano: Yeah. And then  

Ryan: And then, the interview once again will be with someone that is either a matter partner or their director, which is like the step down from that. And then you would also be with another member of the well, HR.  

Maximiliano: HR department. So so so you would have the interview and that the interview questions would be a lot more focused this time and you probably guess where I'm going with this. The interview questions will pretty much be exclusively about that task that you just spent shadowing the apprentice for. So So you better make sure that you are paying attention.  

Ryan: mate. And then  

Maximiliano: Do they tell you like  

Ryan: Nope. They do not tell you.  

Maximiliano: Oh my god.  

Ryan: changed process now, so it's a lot more friendly. It's like a week's long work experience now, but in my process in my process this was It was just like that experience.  

Maximiliano: Let's go. Let's like They don't do it strictly. I think the main reason is to check whether like you are engaged with what Yeah, if you were like actually doing something or Cuz if you're interested, you would naturally be like a fly on the wall. You'll be like, "My god, this is so interesting. I'm focused 100% on what is going on." So they're cut like the questions are kind of like that. They're like super friendly drawing in stuff like that. It's more of like informal chat, I would say. I see. With them like over what you would essentially been doing. And that contract task as well does come up with a few questions on that, but that's sort of like a smaller part of the interview. The interview into I think is roughly about 30 was like about 30 or so minutes.  

Ryan: Mhm.  

Maximiliano: And then once you've done that, you then basically sort of will be either successful pulling a reserve or a list if you didn't quite make the cut of four, but if someone of the four rejects it, then you will obviously be like next in line. And then obviously you could have just flat out been rejected at that part as well. Were you  

Ryan: I was a full blown accepted. In fairness, all of my year were straight accepted. We like accepted the role once we were offered it and all that. None of us were on the reserve list.  

Maximiliano: Did you ever thought about going to uni though?  

Ryan: It was an option. I I like offers from UWE for instance, but as soon as the offer was on the table for Burgess, and that came in, which came months later cuz uni were a lot quicker the unis were a lot quicker at responding because their recruiting process is a lot more quicker in terms of like you being offered a uni spot than what it would be in terms of the recruitment process.  

Maximiliano: I see.  

Ryan: So, I found out that I had uni spots when I did as far as I know, I didn't have any offers from any law firms.  

Maximiliano: I see.  

Ryan: Did Burgess, and then as soon as I got that, it was like, "Yeah, it's not really a doubt. I'm sending rejection emails." Yeah. So, yeah, like what were your thoughts coming into I know you basically hated uni. Not kidding, but like you weren't planning on going to uni and this was your whole focus. So, what were your like first thoughts?  

Maximiliano: I mean, my first thoughts was that I was terrified, to be honest. I came from, like I said, Hartcliffe, which is small like part in Bristol, not close to the city center. It's about 30-minute drive, or so. And then on the bus, it's even longer. And then obviously, I came from a, like I said, low-income family, so I felt even more out of place at that career because the perception  

Ryan: What do your parents do?  

Maximiliano: Well, my mom's a cleaner, and then my dad just wasn't in the picture. So, single mom pretty much for as long as well, for a few years actually, until she got with my stepdad, who's a scaffolder now. So, proper working-class sort of family. But yeah, so like I already came in with the perception that I don't belong in a way cuz the perception with law that it's trying to shake is that it's not just somewhere where like say for instance, you go to like Oxford, Cambridge, or whatever, you're like going there. Whereas, it's not the case, but when you were going in there from like obviously, like I said, my only view was the assessment center, and people were friendly enough, but they're like, "Okay, right. What's the difference when I'm working here?" So, like I had those thoughts racing. Like I said, it was my first job straight out of A levels, so I was still as nervous as I was as well. So, kind of did have like imposter syndrome or where I was like, "I better not make any mistakes or whatever cuz they're instantly going to know that I somehow don't belong here. So, like I was super super panicked and like super terrified basically of like making a mistake or asking dumb questions, cuz I was like, "If I I already think I don't belong here, so I don't want them to think that basically."  

Ryan: Yeah. It can be a good trait, but like it also can be detrimental as well if you don't check it. Like I very quickly got out of that mindset.  

Maximiliano: Yeah.  

Ryan: Like about 6 months in, because I was like, "Right, everyone's super friendly or whatever." Everyone's like, "Oh, yeah, ask me like questions if you have like any on this uh topic, cuz they're super aware of the fact that you won't have that background knowledge. So, in terms of my background experience of law, it was just generally what I'd researched when I became interested in that. Like and obviously with the department, there's no guarantee that you end up in a department where you necessarily know any prior information with. So, like I ended up in dispute resolution, had no idea about anything to do with that sort of area of law. Um so yeah, it's it was definitely uh interesting feeling for the first few months of kind of being terrified, but also kind of excited as well, cuz of all the shiny new matters I was getting involved in that had high value that was completely absurd to me.  

Maximiliano: So, yeah, how were the like the first few weeks then?  

Ryan: So, first few weeks here kind of settling in. It's kind of slow paced, cuz obviously no one knows your name.  

Maximiliano: Is it?  

Ryan: Yeah.  

Maximiliano: I thought like you would like hit the ground running. I don't know for some reason.  

Ryan: Yeah. You're kind of like for the first few weeks kind of getting to know the team. You may get like a few tasks or whatever that are kind of like uh fairly easy to do, but like from a standpoint now fairly easy to do. Like if I was given them now, well nearly 3 years in,  

Maximiliano: Mhm.  

Ryan: I would very much be able to like easily do it. But obviously when you're obviously first year, it's quite difficult basically. So, that's where my next uh question actually come from. When was it like the first time that you observed yourself thinking like a lawyer?  

Maximiliano: Kind of when I started doing court bundles in a way, cuz court bundles literally are  

Ryan: Sorry, what is it?  

Maximiliano: Yeah. So, court bundle is a series of documents that you would have in a case that you would submit to a court. So, say for instance, if you're in like a litigation dispute or whatever, like any document and evidence or whatever, like timeline of events.  

Ryan: It's just like the whole package of documents.  

Maximiliano: that you submit to the court. Now, with these, obviously, you need to combine a bunch of documents in like Adobe Pro, which is what we use. So, but like you kind of need to think on the fly as well because during it, there could be something that changes like the deadline shifts cuz the court wants some like now or like or in some weeks.  

Ryan: or or there's like extra documents or whatever that they want to get in there. So, then you're going to have to like make edits and stuff like that. And then you're actively thinking of these things as well, like literally, how does the lawyer want this presented? How does the court also want this presented? And when you start asking these questions, in my opinion, that's when you start to think of a lawyer cuz you're making considerations other than just simply mindlessly doing the work.  

Maximiliano: I see.  

Ryan: If that makes sense, and then that sort of like leads into extra sort of stuff that you will go on to do basically in your legal say for instance, you're constantly thinking of what does the client want from this? How like does the lawyer that has delegated the task to me? How do they want it to look? And you're starting to make those extra considerations, really.  

Maximiliano: Okay, then have you done like a big mistake?  

Ryan: Oh, yeah, undoubtedly that.  

Maximiliano: Like like one that is like so huge the firm has to maybe stop for a moment, just like regain traction, no?  

Ryan: No, not to that level, no. But like there are there are some mistakes that you would define as like big. Like for instance, there was part of the whole reason why like I stressed the importance of communication is simply cuz this is a you probably guess this is a mistake that I've made with one of my remember when I first started, I had I was already terrified of just speaking to people, like I said, cuz I was like, if I don't speak to them, I'm not going to be found out to be basically an impostor, like I don't belong here, basically, by asking stupid questions or whatever. Essentially, I have we had to do this advice now. And then I was like like got really really busy and it was like the first time that I think I ever got really really busy to the point where like I had no spare time to do like anything pretty much.  

Maximiliano: Damn right.  

Ryan: And then so it was the first time of how well can you manage a series of virus that all kind of have tight deadlines. And with this advice now, when I had first picked up at the start of the week, I got told, "Hey, it's due Friday or whatever. So get it to me by close of play Friday." Now, that was fine. I delivered it on time. However, the issue was that the lawyer had no idea of what was happening with this level work for the whole week cuz I just didn't update him at all on it. Because I was like radio silent cuz I was like, "Right, I'm too busy right now to like message him or whatever." Like it just wasn't even a consideration to do. And it was me like he obviously brought up to me after I'd done it. He was like just He was chill about it because I mean, he's probably seen it all but it's like a seriously up by now. He's probably seen a lot worse mistakes than this.  

Maximiliano: Well, and you actually did the job at the end.  

Ryan: And I delivered it on time. It was just the fact I caused him an unnecessary heart attack cuz he like had to like message me and try to track me down and basically like "What's going on with this?" Whereas obviously that shouldn't really have You shouldn't really have to be upset at other people when you're Your supervisors shouldn't ask you. You should tell you. The onus is on you with that responsibility. And like I said, obviously I came from straight out of A levels, so it was 100% switching from the responsibility is on someone else because you're being heavily sort of like monitored. You're being told what to do and stuff like that. And you're kind of being told to follow the leader basically with A levels. Like follow what you're being taught in sort of textbooks and all that sort of stuff. But whereas in working as a legal apprentice, the opposite is Here's the task, you're responsible for it. Get it done to me by this time and in this fashion.  

Maximiliano: I got to say, since I've So every time I'm studying something, I am impressed by how incredibly unique the problem of education is. And I would say I don't think anything but maybe playgroup or like kindergarten, something like that, encourages you to do a task in group, which is the main focus on any other job that you do that that you will do for life. So basically my issue Now I'm doing a an online course, none of it is practical at all. Like you should be you should be putting it into like a teamwork like I don't know do with a gentle guy or whatever.  

Ryan: I mean to be fair like even in like A levels at least in my experience that hasn't really shifted. Like you don't really do that much group projects. Obviously occasionally you will but like they're far and few between. And I also feel like the issue as well is that it's very much I would say GCSE primary and then obviously A levels as well are kind of like a memory test. You're not being taught to think practically about like  

Maximiliano: Yeah no no no.  

Ryan: or improvise really on like  

Maximiliano: why really love the German system. So if you memorize everything Yeah. they will give you a two. So it goes from six to one. Two is if you memorized it perfectly. So they will give you a two if it's perfectly there. If you thought about it and like actually put like some thinking into it and you not only know the memorized it basically but you actually can put it into practice then you will get a one, which is great. I love it.  

Ryan: So it's like a difference of a A and A star I guess.  

Maximiliano: Yeah see that's see that's why it was  

Ryan: at least to me when I obviously started I was so confusing. Because obviously we do uni one day one day of the week obviously and in that uni session you're basically it flips because you're not suddenly doing a memory test now anymore. You're actually applying the law. So like for instance you'll be taught I don't know we're doing total recently. So you'll be taught for instance like every aspect of it so like negligence, causation, that sort of thing. And you you now are like given a question you're like, "Okay, right. Here's a scenario that's happened. Now, apply all these lessons that we've just taught you."  

Maximiliano: Mhm.  

Ryan: And that, in my opinion, is a lot better way of learning because then you're taught the material that you need to know, and you're also taught, "Hey, think about this and now apply it." Obviously, for like some certain subjects, you're not going to be able to, for instance, like something like history, you maybe have difficulty having lessons and stuff like that. I I feel like the education system in general kind of does need a bit of a rework to the point where it's trying to strive to prepare you for that thinking as well cuz I think  

Maximiliano: Yeah.  

Ryan: even like I even if I were to like the full-blooded uni route, I feel like I would kind of still be in a similar situation of where the switch-up happens cuz you're still being asked the same sort of questions. And then obviously, when you're a legal apprentice as well, and you're also not even just being asked simple questions you get marked on. You're being asked questions that you legitimately have to think about, and you then have to apply all your background knowledge that you learned, maybe like some research that you've done basically to become more knowledgeable on this topic to answer a question. And I feel like that's something that you're not really prepared for when you exit out of A levels really. And you're even GCSE levels if you've just gone straight into a job without doing A levels.  

Maximiliano: that's what I really loved about at least the last 2 years of my education. I was in a Waldorf school. The idea of the Waldorf school is that people learn by doing, and people are curious by nature. So, you you take those two premises, and then you basically the idea of the teachers, they don't call them teachers, they call them like guides or something like that, is to guide them into being curious enough to explore different themes. So, for example, what you would do in geography if I in history, is they would give a different text to every student in the group. They will make it so that they have to create the history Yeah. based of all this type of angles, which is great.  

Ryan: I feel that's more of a better way of doing it than what we currently have, in my opinion. I don't know. It's it definitely goes into what is more practical, but I don't know if it's the best It's probably not It's probably a case of where it's not really the best way of one approach either like or just like completely. It's probably best if you don't mix up both and I feel like right now it kind of just doesn't do that right now our education system.  

Maximiliano: Well, all the billionaires are in Waldorf systems now. All the children at least. The children  

Ryan: I mean I wouldn't know.  

Maximiliano: It's great. It's It's very interesting. So, I'm I'm very into education. So, walk me through an acquisition from the legal point of view. How do I acquire a business?  

Ryan: So, firstly depends. The business that I'll see like for instance business can earn it several things like property and stuff like that. So, firstly in terms of the way that it's the standard of like a business owns a building or see you need to transfer the ownership after the deal's been done. So, like you would have  

Maximiliano: you're buying the entity. Yeah, yeah. When you're When you're buying the entity you're buying it fully. So, like simply you would probably have to change like any sort of ownership deeds of where like say for instance some businesses they'll have like a building or whatever that they own. It may be that the actual owner of said business is much as the owner of the building not the business in terms of the structure. So, you would need to handle all that sort of things in terms of transferring over documents of deeds and stuff like that.  

Ryan: So, yeah. Sorry. It was It was my bad. So, I have bought businesses before. The thing is there's two ways of buying a business and this is what I've understood off of my brief research that I've done currently cuz I'm thinking of buying a whole business so like an entity. So, it's it's quite interesting because I have bought this first type of business which is everything is under somebody's name and then you basically buy into that. You basically have the full disclaimer. It's easier for the for the buyer because then you can actually see what's everything what is everything in there into the business. But then the other one is from the limited company. So the limited company has all these uh contracts in place that are attached to the limited company. And then you basically have to switch directors and positions of the of the stocks.  

Maximiliano: Yeah, so in that scenario, if we're buying a limited company and obviously they have all their contracts, and you would have to do this anyways if you changed ownership in general.  

Ryan: Mhm.  

Maximiliano: Um but you would have to do something called novation of those contracts, which is where you continue the same contractual terms. So basically for instance, say if you buy a delivery company and that delivery company has an obligation with another company to deliver goods like once every week or whatever.  

Ryan: Mhm.  

Maximiliano: And you want to continue on that business arrangement, you do something called novation, which is that all that this company is owned under another sort of and this agreement was done while the company was owned by someone else. You essentially are still upholding that obligation. As a standard point, you probably would want to do it anyways cuz you would want to continue on with the same business arrangements that you have.  

Ryan: I would agree to disagree that because when you when you first start No, obviously buy a business Obviously you would  

Maximiliano: thing that you have to cut is costs.  

Ryan: Yeah, yeah, you would you you would um get that out of the way.  

Maximiliano: thing. You would have to obviously literally decide which ones you want to null and void avoid and stuff like that and you would probably have to go about doing it. You can't just like simply take over a contract or whatever and then just simply Well,  

Ryan: in some cases just like go and No. No. No. No. No. I'm not doing it anymore cuz it is a agreed term. However, obviously simply carrying on those obligations is a lot more easier to do cuz it's just simply like we recognize that there's been a change of ownership. The ownership still wants to continue on this arrangement. Both parties happy and signed basically agreement essentially saying that and boom, you're basically done in terms of that agreement being carried over.  

Maximiliano: How does a process look? Let's say somebody's selling a company, then I am trying to buy it. I go, say, "Hey, I'm approaching to buy the company." Then I sign a probably an NDA or something like that so that I can look into the accounts and so on. Then I make the offer, they accept. What's the legal work from there?  

Ryan: So, I mean, first things if they accept, obviously, you're going to have to drop basically a contract of the sale, obviously, so there's no dispute.  

Maximiliano: Okay.  

Ryan: And then, once that's done, that's signed, and you've agreed price, transfer whatever funds by like XYZ, whatever was written in the contract.  

Maximiliano: One pound minimum, legally.  

Ryan: Yeah, like like once that I know that scheme. Once once once every part of the contract's basically essentially done, then you can then move on to the next phase, which is obviously transferring over the actual ownership and the assets in the company to you, basically. That can be done by several things. So, for instance, like I said, if you  

Maximiliano: But it's only the change of managing director. There's no change in  

Ryan: Yeah, but what I mean about is literally you would need to still do updates, for instance, like Companies House. Obviously, you would need to disclose your directors and stuff like that. So, that would change. You would need to file the documents and stuff like that subsequently through the contract to show the change of ownership.  

Maximiliano: And how do you have to file that? Like, what's the process on filing that?  

Ryan: I probably can't say to that degree. It's just not my experience.  

Maximiliano: Yeah, no worries, no worries. It's just I'm curious cuz like do you need a lawyer for that or can you submit it yourself?  

Ryan: It would probably be worth like for the step for typical mergers and acquisitions, it would you probably be done by a law firm's corporate side. Because because they handle sort of like the they handle sort of like the accounts and all that sort of stuff. Like you would feed them through for a whole process process of mergers and acquisitions. So, they would probably like you would probably have a corporate team working on it. Then you may like depending on the contracts and stuff like that, you may want to know that. You may have like another department working on that side of things as well. So, yeah, that's you probably would need a lawyer for that.  

Maximiliano: Okay, so I see the managing directors transfer and so on. What about stocks? When I buy a company, how does it work with the stocks? Do you have to tell it to cuz I've never bought a stock of a limited company. I've only bought it public through a trading.  

Ryan: I think because limited also you don't quote me on it because it's limited it it obviously isn't publicly traded. So you don't really need to do anything else like other than just simply do the documents of like transfer of ownership and stuff like that because there's no shares that are being sold or anything like that. You would essentially just have to deal with any sort of the people that own like a minor interest in the company. So say for instance you have someone that's  

Maximiliano: To draw the contract and then submit the contract to  

Ryan: Yeah, but you basically handle that stuff to companies house notify them of the ownership change and that sort of thing. The document you would fill out would just be a standard notice of ownership. Like you'll see it on like company uh companies that have gone through changes to directors or whatever like the form that they fill out cuz it's usually submitted. It's all obviously public record and still it's always on there pretty much.  

Maximiliano: Is it legal in England to draw up a contract yourself?  

Ryan: It's legal I'm pretty sure. However, the fact I really wouldn't advise it because obviously a lawyer a lawyer a lawyer would know like what statues and stuff like that can apply. So obviously in a contract you would be mentioning like what statue it falls under and something like that on certain terms and all that kind of stuff which obviously someone who has legal experience would know and be like all right so this falls on this part of the contract falls under And these are the things that are disputed the most and you got to check it out.  

Maximiliano: you don't want to also sign yourself like someone with legal experience would know like a term that's favorable for like a party or whatever. But the is obviously  

Ryan: The thing is I've I've drawn contracts myself.  

Maximiliano: the thing though. You have to be careful there to some certain degree. If there's a contract that's particularly technical for instance, there's something called like unfair contract terms which is OCTA and it deals with basically the terms that are like on basically they're unfavorable or whatever, and if that got brought to court or whatever, and that was disputed, and that could void the whole contract, change the like intentions of the thing. Depends on what you view it. Simply because it's to protect basically against one party having significant power when they engage into the agreement. So like say for instance, if you have a company that is like under financial duress, right? They're being bought out by you.  

Ryan: Yeah.  

Maximiliano: They're obviously you're the more powerful one out of the two parties because you're helping them out of that situation.  

Ryan: Makes sense.  

Maximiliano: So so naturally, ACTA and stuff like that basically wants to it Well, the act's intention is to ensure basically there's no terms that massively favor you that they kind of can't Well, they can't really disagree with, otherwise they're going to be liquidated for instance.  

Ryan: Yeah.  

Maximiliano: So that's that's what ACTA is for then.  

Ryan: Okay.  

Maximiliano: So So basically, I don't take advantage of people. Pretty much.  

Ryan: That's the thing that I love about entrepreneurship. You can literally choose whatever the thing you want to do. And then you make up the your own rules. Like you have to follow the law and things like monopoly type of things. The thing is I don't know how monopoly works uh here in England. At least I've followed the rules that are applicable in Germany cuz I know German monopoly rules, and I know that if you're in a small city or like in a town, you can be a monopolist a monopolist in a town. But I don't know how about here in England. So I have done some serious competition in Taunton uh with my vending machines.  

Maximiliano: Yeah. I was monopolistic, and I I showed my monopolistic advantage.  

Ryan: I mean, so long as it's above board and stuff like that, and you're just out competing, I don't  

Maximiliano: Yeah.  

Ryan: really think it would be a problem. Obviously, it monopoly law is something that I  

Maximiliano: But from a standpoint it probably should be fine, I would say. In terms of where where as long as you're not doing something like unfair business practices or whatever to win like a market share it like  

Ryan: No. No. No. No. No. I just signed up contracts with people that I had a longer term that I needed for the actual fulfillment of the contract. So this is this is where it is going against me in business. There was a friend that tried to buy vending machines  

Maximiliano: Yeah.  

Ryan: cuz he saw me buying three or four vending machines in Taunton. So what I did is go around all the spots that I knew that they were going to say yes or they were probably going to say yes and sign up contracts so that I could put my vending machines there in a certain amount of time.  

Maximiliano: I mean so long as like they should be the parties have both like agreed and like the time isn't like super egregious that you haven't said it's going to be there for like 80 years or something like that in like the  

Ryan: No. No. No. No. It was about putting the machines more than so  

Maximiliano: Yeah, but what I mean is if you're putting the machines down and you essentially have had it like I don't know the placement of it essentially disagreed is like extremely long time which leaves no window for competition basically in that, right?  

Ryan: No.  

Maximiliano: Then it could be a problem or like so if there is like no way to essentially void that contract from like either of both parties basically. Like then it becomes a problem. So long as you're still allowing basically competition to be read by the contracts eventually ending and then you have to renegotiate or whatever then  

Ryan: Yeah.  

Maximiliano: No. No. No. No. I just basically blocked somebody from competing at least in the market that I was competing which is a very small thing. They could have competed in a parallel market. I was in vending machines in certain types of shops. If they would have asked another type of shop, then they could have gone and I don't know.  

Ryan: Yeah, that's it. I mean  

Maximiliano: So, technically I wasn't a monopoly, but I was.  

Ryan: I mean, it's not it's not like you have the whole area on lock basically for him to compete and like he had other options. So, that's still fine. Like, for instance, you're not going to like every shop in your going, "You can't like engage with this guy before you even have a arrangement in place basically." So, that's fine.  

Maximiliano: But guys, if you ever want to compete with me, that is what is competing against me. I will devastate I will make you spend money and wait as much as possible until you like your soul of competition breaks. And then I'm going to probably buy you out or something like that. That's me. I'm so sorry. Anyways, another question that I actually had is actually very precise one. I know accounting. I did a little bit of AAT, AAT. So, accounting technician. And then Well, I've recently done my tax returns and they were pretty fav- favorable. So, what I've been trying to do now is getting it done for my friends. Is that a possibility?  

Ryan: How do you mean?  

Maximiliano: Like, so you have a accountant for instance that ends up basically doing the accounts of your friends or I do the accounts the the accounts for my friends.  

Ryan: See, I feel like the issue there might be the fact that you what when you're a business, you obviously are liable and what about when you are are doing it for your business? You obviously have a stake as it's your business where to ensure that like the liability falls on you. The issue being is if you're doing it for your friends, obviously you're not connected to the their business or whatever it is. And so, the issue is this that you have you unqualified individual cuz obviously you're not qualified to be a accountant is doing that. And then as a result, it may be issue for basically since the you technically being liable if like there's any mistakes which there are might heavily be.  

Maximiliano: Damn.  

Ryan: I like I just I just personally wouldn't touch that because it's the kind of like acting as for instance it's like the reason why we had disclaimer of oh yeah this is not legal advice is because obviously I can't be relied upon someone can't just go oh well this person said this in court because I'm not qualified to hold that like  

Maximiliano: Mhm.  

Ryan: as a thing. So yeah it's just Yeah I personally wouldn't touch that.  

Maximiliano: I like danger. I I I would just I would just say to them get a accountant and then just yeah. The thing is if they're paying me  

Ryan: That's the issue. They're paying you to do it as well. Like so literally you are could be seen as acting basically as a accountant  

Maximiliano: accountant when you're not qualified to be a accountant.  

Ryan: What if they pay me with stock though?  

Maximiliano: Yeah.  

Ryan: Then I would basically be a owner of the company.  

Maximiliano: True but you're still technically being paid. So like that's the issue. It it doesn't matter the fact of like literally you're being paid in stock or funds you are still being paid in the view of the court. Well that would probably be the approach that they would take. You're still being rewarded basically for that service and you're still providing that service for some pay.  

Ryan: What if I would get like one stock out of like a million so I get one million and then and then I do the accounting. Would that work? I'm trying to find a loophole here man. Help me out.  

Maximiliano: Potentially maybe if you had some interest in the company but then obviously then you would technically be well a minor sort of like shareholder of that company well minor owner of that company which is completely different position than at that point.  

Ryan: Yeah.  

Maximiliano: Oh I got to update you on something. Do you remember me asking you about buying different accounts and buying different podcasts?  

Ryan: So the license and stuff? Yeah.  

Maximiliano: Yes. So I already got through it. I went through it like I know what to do now.  

Ryan: Yeah.  

Maximiliano: Cuz I know what the average buyout is looks like. So, you basically buy the limited company that owns everything, basically the videos, as you said. So, they have this contract with the person. And the person does it, but technically you obviously literally Well, you're classified as owner technically of the channel if you're fully outright owning the thing with that company, but obviously the person's responsible for outputting the um  

Ryan: You don't count as owner of the channel, you count of owner of the content within the channel.  

Maximiliano: Oh, you mean in terms of literally they have the contractual obligation. You're the company is has a contract with them to output that, but they don't have the ownership of the channel.  

Ryan: Yeah, no, in that case, yeah, that's licensing.  

Maximiliano: Which has been, yeah, I thought I thought it was going to be a problem. Anyways, one last question. Where do you actually see yourself in the future? The reason why I'm asking you this in particular is because well, you come from a working family, had all these presuppositions about what the legal sector was and how to get into the bar and so on. Actually ended up landing the job and now you now you're doing it. You're like one, two years away from So, it will be three years providing the SQE one and two goes well to become a qualified solicitor. So, So, you got three years to become a qualified solicitor. Well, NQ, but we'll be technically classified as qualified solicitor, yeah. And then you would actually live like the dream, basically. Well, my dream at the very least. I mean, man, like I think anybody's dream. Mhm. Well, maybe not the job, but like the dream at least. That's what you're going to end up doing.  

Ryan: Yeah, so I mean obviously for that 5 years I think actually technically the way it would work out for the end of that like 5-year period I probably would just be becoming like terms of like cuz the way it goes once you've obviously done SQE 1 2 then you're qualified solicitor and stuff like that you do this thing called an NQ role  

Maximiliano: Okay.  

Ryan: newly qualified which stands for newly qualified.  

Maximiliano: Oh, I see. So you are a solicitor but obviously you don't have sort of the like official name as solicitor cuz you're just starting out basically obviously so you get you get monitored a lot more basically.  

Ryan: Yeah.  

Maximiliano: Um and then you have obviously I think that period only lasts for 2 years then you become like full-blown in name's sake solicitor at that firm. Uh so I would just start to be obviously that and would obviously be living life. As of right now like the apprenticeship pays like remarkably well right now so I'm in a position where I can help out my family. When I become a solicitor I can do that even more which you know helps I could move my mom out of Hartcliffe into a much nicer area at that point.  

Ryan: Oh, I'm sure.  

Maximiliano: as move out myself as well. Yeah. Into a nicer area as well which I kind of want to do. I honestly see my like it's pretty much like I'm of the opinion now I can genuinely see myself like even 20 years down the line probably still working at that like at my law firm.  

Ryan: You like  

Maximiliano: if I'm allowed I love it like literally in terms of the like cuz in law there is very much like I don't know how to put it some magic law uh magic circle law firms in particular like their work-life sort of balance can be a bit rogue.  

Ryan: For A bit he says.  

Maximiliano: What what what what one unnamed firm that I went to on like open evening in London for instance cuz pretty much all of them are mainly headquarter in London. In their headquarter they had beds for instance cuz like people were sleeping in the cuz they were working that late. Obviously my firm we don't have that because we have a very much of work-life balance. Like we do obviously occasionally work later or whatever, but that is not the expectation. The expectation is that like you go home  

Ryan: Like 5.  

Maximiliano: Yeah, when you have like literally say if you have a family, you go like go home, eat, go spend time with your family or whatever, and that is very much like something that my firm prides itself on protecting in terms of that. Like like I remember when obviously I've just starting out, I worked like super late cuz I had so much stuff on. So like 9  

Ryan: Mhm.  

Maximiliano: And my supervisor was like next day he was like wait, I saw I saw you that you were on like online till like 9. Like what are you doing? Like just go home. It was obviously done in a lot nicer way and he was sitting down and just making sure that I'm all right and stuff like that. He was like he he was like you shouldn't be working this late and obviously I shouldn't have been. I was a first year. Like it's He's like if stuff is getting that bad to the point where you have to work that late, just genuinely  

Ryan: Just ask for help.  

Maximiliano: Yeah, just ask for help. I got to say I I wouldn't like your your firm that much. I like I like the grind. I love the  

Ryan: Well, the option Well, you can grind if you want to, but like literally obviously like I said the expectation isn't like the expectation. You could You basically are allowed to have a life, whereas I feel like in some certain other law firms, that is kind of a problem because like you just do insane hours. And like don't get me wrong, the pay is great, but like at the end of the day, if you get paid like a great amount, but you have like no time to like seek the benefits of it.  

Maximiliano: What's points.  

Ryan: it's like what's the point if there's no like  

Maximiliano: Working all day.  

Ryan: Yeah, sometimes like pay just isn't the be-all and end-all, man. Like I much prefer the fact that I just get to go and have a life while I do my apprenticeship. And obviously why I will be a solicitor as well. Like I very much like that aspect of being able to just go home after a long day at work and then just chill for like a few hours.  

Maximiliano: Yeah. Well, if if you ever want to go into mergers and acquisitions,  

Ryan: Mhm.  

Maximiliano: I would love that. Okay? Like you have my number.  

Ryan: We'll we will see when I go into corporate of how well I like that work. We will I mean to be fair I'll go to see I've literally got obviously change of cuz we call it the various departments that we go to seats. Yeah. So like obviously I did C&DR, C&P, and obviously now C&P projects. And obviously towards the end of the year we get like choices over which seat we want to go to. It's not guaranteed that we end up going to whichever one we rate high, but like there is obviously a chance that I could just go to corporate regardless of like what I pick anyways.  

Maximiliano: That is on the Give it a try. Give it a try. In my opinion every lawyer should do this. Start the career in corporate finance and then end up in like family disputes. Family is actually another one that's like fairly interesting as well, but it's very it's a very small team cuz obviously naturally cuz we're a commercial law firm, we mainly do a sort of like the family type of like division of assets and stuff like that. Where can get a bit in terms of the drama of it, but  

Ryan: Oh my a bit?  

Maximiliano: Yeah, for for My dad said he doesn't have the character for it cuz it's too much of like stabs in the back from people that love each other. Which is  

Ryan: For the most part  

Maximiliano: Too much. It's too much.  

Ryan: It's a very small team, but I feel like I would probably love to do a seat in family like  

Maximiliano: Yeah.  

Ryan: Cuz it's it's could really interesting point of law as well in terms of and it's also really interesting what happens in there.  

Maximiliano: My dad said the following so he's not a sadist, that's why he doesn't go into criminal or family. Criminal or family? He just doesn't like people stabbing each other and just like  

Ryan: To be fair you're going to get drama though in like most other things. Like for instance in like pensions, right? You honestly wouldn't there's no drama there at all, right? But that But that's what I mean. There's points There's always going to be points of contention in your thing. It's just basically picking your poison of what that point of contention is, really. Like literally with DR, obviously, it's when two parties are in litigation. Obviously, there's been a breakdown in relationships to the point where they sued one another. So, naturally, the two companies interacting with one another, like when you look back on the evidence, might not be speaking nice of one another, for instance. So, like literally, you may have like they have Say like for instance like in a separate email, this guy is like insert XYZ swear word like on email, and you're like, "Oh, well, all right then. That's just escalated  

Maximiliano: Oh, I see.  

Ryan: And then with people with pensions, it's a very personal thing cuz it's people's retirement money that you're dealing with. So, like literally, and obviously, it's huge like the pension funds could be huge. They could be anywhere between millions to billions. And obviously, you have like hundreds or thousands of members that are part of that scheme.  

Maximiliano: I don't want to know any names, but ultra-high-net-worth individuals uh above $35 million, which would be about 28 28 million pounds, something like that. Have you dealt with such individuals?  

Ryan: Kind of. So, literally, there was a There was general piece that we did to do with pensions. And like obviously, pensions naturally, for the most part, you're advising like scheme individuals or whatever. But like part of pensions also can It can provide certain tax benefits if you put like money in a pension fund. And that like This was They've closed like a lot of the loopholes now in terms of law recently, but that was a strategy high-net-worth individuals used to use like quite a bit. And when they had the pensions bill, which happened last year, they implemented that. There was like a series of panic of what was going to be like going on there because it could just result in like basically people's essentially above a certain threshold, you would be getting taxed more now whereas you would or you weren't before. So naturally that led to a few high net worth individuals panicking. So we actually provide like advice on that.  

Maximiliano: Well, that's why most millionaires are leaving the UK now. In the end one person, he obviously literally had pension fund that would have been above that rumor threshold of what sort of they were going to pick out and he decided the best course of action was to essentially just take out the pension fund. I get obviously he got taxed and stuff like that. And the thing is as well that we were told when it was all said and done you probably as well as he's going the threshold ended up being sort of different to what was rumored. So he could have got away with still having it in the pension fund and it would have been fine.  

Ryan: I got to say it's been a true pleasure having you in the podcast mate.  

Maximiliano: No problems. Really, really appreciate it. If you tell us your the law firm, the name, the location maybe.  

Ryan: Yes, so I work for Bridges Salmon LLP. They are a law firm that deals with UK law and they can do international doing with their trusted firms from abroad. Um we have multiple sectors that we're involved in so that's basically anywhere between stuff like pensions to disputes to pretty much like corporate finance which is what Max loves because that handles mergers and acquisitions. Um they're like quite expansive in their roles. If you want to look at the sectors and the kind of work that we do it's mentioned in our website. If you're interested we do continuous like full piece sort of parcels which we post basically regularly on our website on certain topics so it could be anything to do with to do with like environmental law, which is quite big in the UK at the moment. And all that sort of stuff. Um I'm also free to reach out for for those that are interested and want to go to the apprenticeship route. Um my name's Ryan Miller. You can search me up on LinkedIn and message me on there.  

Maximiliano: Yeah, guys. So, this is Ryan Miller. Thank you very much for listening to this week's episode. Thank you once again. Please follow us in all social medias, Instagram, TikTok, Spotify, and YouTube. Until the next week.