Mitchell Watkins: Full Podcast Transcript
- beyondhorizon965
- Aug 2
- 49 min read
Host: Maximiliano Fabres
Guest: Mitchell Watkins
Location: Bristol, UK
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Maximiliano: Hello guys, welcome back to Beyond the Horizon podcast. Uh the podcast where you expand your horizons of knowledge. Uh today with me, uh Micheline Watkins.
Mitchell: Thank you.
Maximiliano: Now, I had trouble with the surname. Uh Mish.
Mitchell: Mish.
Maximiliano: Mesh?
Mitchell: Yes.
Maximiliano: Okay, finally got it. Uh Mish uh is a art gallery manager. Um in the North Street Gallery in Bristol. An incredible uh pop-up artist uh who has had quite a bit of a journey. So, uh Mish, please tell us about yourself. Who are you?
Mitchell: Who am I? Um I'm an artist and I paint pop art work. I've done various forms of art over the years. I've drawn, I've painted oil paintings. Um but what I really like is pop art, bright, vibrant colors. And I used to live in Africa and I think the sunshine and the warmth there just brought out that in me. And living here in England where it's so often it's gray and rainy, you need color to to add life.
Maximiliano: Yeah. Uh Yeah. Yes. I got to say yes. We were talking with my sister yesterday, uh and we just said, "How would the world be different if England just had sun from the beginning?"
Mitchell: Yeah.
Maximiliano: But what what what a different world would would it be.
Mitchell: It It really changed my life having had 10 years in Cape Town to come back here, and I really hate the winters here. The gray skies. Having said that, in Cape Town, sometimes I long for a cloud in the sky.
Maximiliano: Yeah.
Mitchell: Cuz you get 6 months, 7 months of just beautiful blue skies, and it's fantastic. But every so often, a little bit of a cloud would be nice.
Maximiliano: I would die in Cape Town.
Mitchell: Oh, no, you wouldn't. No, it's lovely. It's lovely. I say to everyone, go and visit Cape Town. It's so beautiful. It's lovely. Yeah, and the Africans, black Africans, are wonderful. Absolutely wonderful.
Maximiliano: It's good. Uh well, now we do the ceremonial thing where we try and light up the candle. There we go.
Mitchell: There we are. Put it here.
Maximiliano: Uh yeah.
Mitchell: We'll put it there.
Maximiliano: Wherever wherever you
Mitchell: Yeah.
Maximiliano: you think is suitable.
Mitchell: Yeah.
Maximiliano: So, um So, you've been painting for quite a while now.
Mitchell: I think all my life, really. Um I've got uh three older brothers, and whereas they'd be out playing football or fighting or whatever it is boys do, I was always I was always drawing. Always drawing. I was drawing women. Uh it was always princesses back in the day. Uh yeah, and then started painting, and I sort of never stopped, really, with various different career changes along the way.
Maximiliano: So, then, what was uh the character of small Mish?
Mitchell: Um pliable, I think I would say.
Maximiliano: Pliable? Can you explain
Mitchell: I sort of I always did what I was told, really. And I wanted to go to art college. Um and my father really didn't want me to go. Back in the '60s and '70s drugs were sort of rife in the colleges then, and he just thought, probably rightly so, I'd get sucked into all of that. And so he very firmly was against it. Um so I went off and did jobs, but I always always did art courses in the evening. I would do life drawing or anything so I could be painting. Wherever I went, I would do a course, always. Yeah. And just carried on. And then started a degree here in Bristol. Did my foundation, started the degree, and then my first marriage fell apart. And I had to go and work. I had to give up that degree and sort of go and get jobs and do all sorts of other things, which sort of wasn't easy, but I just carried on painting.
Maximiliano: But you still
Mitchell: Carried on painting. Never finished the degree, but it's never held me back. And I think as long as you just keep on keep on doing what you love, you just get better.
Maximiliano: Mhm.
Mitchell: So I've had quite a few challenges in my life which have sort of made me think I've got to stop the painting, but I can't. I think it's in your DNA. I really do. If you Like with anything, with photography or doing these podcasts, it's in your DNA. You have to do it.
Maximiliano: Well, in the Dead Poets Society, the film
Mitchell: Yeah.
Maximiliano: uh the I don't remember what the teacher's called.
Mitchell: Was it Robin Williams?
Maximiliano: Ro- Robin Williams. Um he says, uh "We don't read poetry because it's uh lovely and nice and so on, but because we're part of the human race."
Mitchell: It's true.
Maximiliano: It's a need. It's It's It's a
Mitchell: It's a must. And it's That's That's me. I have to paint. I shall never stop. And I think that's the good thing about being creative. You never retire. You go on doing it because you love it so much. It's my passion. I shall go on doing it. I shall probably never be rich or famous, but I absolutely love what I do.
Maximiliano: Well, who knows? Maybe you will.
Mitchell: Who knows? Maybe Maybe this will Anyway, yeah.
Maximiliano: Yeah, maybe this will be your I'm telling you, yeah. It's uh
Mitchell: Cheers.
Maximiliano: So, um your your father then uh was very
Mitchell: quite authoritarian.
Maximiliano: discouraging
Mitchell: Yes. And I think at at the time I I resented it, but actually I think he was doing it with the best of intentions. He thought, "Really, you need to get a proper job, and then you can earn money. You can live, you know, you can live somewhere, rent, and what have you." Yeah.
Maximiliano: And how did Do you reckon that How do you reckon that actually molded your character in some way and
Mitchell: I think it held me back. I'm sure of it. I think I resented it. Um Do you reckon? I think at the time, yes. You know, because I I sort of did as I was told back in It's a We were a different generation. I think you were more like that.
Maximiliano: Mhm.
Mitchell: Um but I couldn't stop what was inside me. Um and I think the years in Africa really brought out me in the end. I really sort of took off with it then. But that was I was 55 and I didn't I was 55 before I called myself an artist.
Maximiliano: Really?
Mitchell: Yeah, I didn't feel confident. I think I had zero self-confidence. Yeah, zero self-confidence.
Maximiliano: And you've been painting since you're probably three.
Mitchell: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But I just, you know, just life intervened, you know, couple of divorces.
Maximiliano: years just of denying
Mitchell: Yeah. Life intervened, you know, couple of divorces, three children, you know, that all takes takes your time.
Maximiliano: Three children.
Mitchell: Three.
Maximiliano: Damn.
Mitchell: And four and a half grand Well, half Four children.
Maximiliano: Four and a What? Four and a half grand
Mitchell: Four grandchildren and one arriving in a couple of months.
Maximiliano: Oh, yeah.
Mitchell: Four and a half, okay.
Maximiliano: Yeah.
Mitchell: I mean, yeah, it is four and a half. That's a good point. It's uh
Maximiliano: So, yeah, so So, that keeps me busy. Um yeah.
Mitchell: Okay, yeah.
Maximiliano: I got to stop saying um, haven't I? I don't know if I say that a lot. Um as I'm thinking.
Mitchell: Oh.
Maximiliano: You can edit that out, can't you?
Mitchell: Um we don't. We don't.
Maximiliano: I'll just try to stop saying um.
Mitchell: Yeah, I I need to do that as well.
Maximiliano: It's quite tedious, isn't it?
Mitchell: I don't know. I don't know.
Maximiliano: Okay.
Mitchell: I I think So, there's something that that actually is uh quite terrible. I used to never say um.
Maximiliano: Okay.
Mitchell: And in cells, because you say the same speech all the time, like I don't know, you say it to
Maximiliano: Yeah.
Mitchell: 50 thousand people a month. I don't know. Just
Maximiliano: Yeah.
Mitchell: You just say it over and over and over again.
Maximiliano: Mhm.
Mitchell: You are told to start saying um and ahs and making pauses like that.
Maximiliano: Oh, right. Complete opposite.
Mitchell: so that it seems natural.
Maximiliano: Okay. That's the complete opposite of what I would do.
Mitchell: Which is very weird. I know, but but
Maximiliano: Okay. You say more and I say less, and we'll get this right.
Mitchell: Uh hopefully. So, tell us a little bit about Cape Town, cuz uh if
Maximiliano: Cape Town, um there was none. After my second divorce, I was on my own for quite a while, and then I re-met a lovely man I'd shared a flat with in London back in the '60s. There were six of us there. And and lived in Cape Town. And you know, he really was wonderful. And I moved out there to be with him lock, stock, and barrel and absolutely loved Cape Town. Loved it, loved it, loved it. Found God in Cape Town properly.
Maximiliano: Really?
Mitchell: Yeah, finally. Yeah, I've been looking all my life. I know. I've been looking uh I've been going I was never brought up to go to church ever. My parents didn't go, but I started looking from the age of about 14. And would go to a traditional church which was okay, but out in Cape Town um I really found God. Uh I did what's called an Alpha course which I won't go into great unless you want to ask about that, but that's
Maximiliano: Um I I was uh going to an Alpha course, but I I haven't been going really I've been to two.
Mitchell: You have to do it. Yeah. You have to do it. You have to do it. Are we allowed to talk about this or do you want That's not art based though, is it?
Maximiliano: matter. It's uh it's
Mitchell: So, um I I sort of had no faith in Cape Town. Um and then my partner really wasn't very well and I got quite lonely um and I happened to walk past a church one day and there was a sign for Alpha. And I thought I'll give it a go and I'd done it years ago and hadn't really got it. And this time I really got it. It's a non-denominational course about Jesus, really. And I just got it. And joined a church there, a Vineyard church, loved it. And when I came back to England, I joined a church here. And through that met some lovely people um but really the art really sort of took off then and I started developing this what I call line art which turned out to be pop art which I hadn't realized. Which is where I would do just a a neutral color with a black outline and a touch of red which an art dealer years ago said to me, "Put a touch of red or orange into your paintings." If you look at Turner, he always did that because it draws the eye in. And he was spot-on. Mhm. So, I'd do cream with a black outline, which I called line art, and I've since discovered it it is pop art.
Maximiliano: Mhm.
Mitchell: And that sort of took off. The But, of course, out in Cape Town, people live in bigger houses. You've got high ceilings. You know, I could do huge great paintings there. Loved it. Absolutely loved it. And got taken on by a couple of galleries. It was great. Great. And I think the sunshine and the warmth helps. The bright colors. You want to paint bright. Why wouldn't you?
Maximiliano: Yeah, of course.
Mitchell: You know, what's not to lose?
Maximiliano: I got to say, I was reading through your biography, and I heard Well, I I read 6-ft paintings.
Maximiliano: 6-ft paintings.
Mitchell: Yeah. Great. I had a really old overhead projector, which I've still got, actually.
Maximiliano: That's great.
Mitchell: I know. And I would draw these these pictures nearly always of women, but not always. I also did elephants and the the big five safari animals. Oops, sorry. Um I'd project them project them onto the canvas.
Maximiliano: Mhm.
Mitchell: And then do the painting from that.
Maximiliano: Have you heard about the book Safari of Life?
Mitchell: No.
Maximiliano: No?
Mitchell: What's that about?
Maximiliano: Uh I think I got it.
Mitchell: Don't knock my painting over.
Maximiliano: Hey, hey, hey. Not again. I think it's somewhere over there. Don't worry. It's It's a very good book about this uh It doesn't have much to do with it.
Mitchell: Okay.
Maximiliano: But, it's just it has to do with a woman who goes as a tour guide um to this German guy or European guy.
Mitchell: Mhm.
Maximiliano: Um she does like this tour for the five great uh animals of the of
Mitchell: Yeah, the big five.
Maximiliano: The big five.
Mitchell: Mhm.
Maximiliano: And she well, teaches him uh like the ways of life of
Mitchell: Okay. Okay.
Maximiliano: African tradition, let's say.
Mitchell: Yeah.
Maximiliano: Um and it's it's very interesting. I would strongly recommend it.
Mitchell: Who's it Well, you can show me after. Do you know who it's by?
Maximiliano: Uh I think that the book is over there. It's Don't worry about it. Second show.
Mitchell: just leave it. I'll just I'll leave it in my I'll destroy your house.
Maximiliano: Yeah. No, don't worry. Don't worry. I destroyed your paintings. I destroyed your house.
Mitchell: Yeah, don't worry. It's
Maximiliano: I do love the black African people and the traditions. I I I love that. I used I did a stint working in a township out there cuz the townships are massive. Um and I helped out It was 2010 when it was the World Cup football. Cape Town was the the host. And I went and helped in a health center in Khayelitsha, which is a massive township in Cape Town. I'd drive in there by myself, a white person, and never had any problems. To help the African women cuz they're so creative, the black Africans. They're so creative. They were making these beautiful things to sell out of old wire hangers and pencils. I mean, they could change any rubbish into a bit of art. They'd make these fantastic stuff. And we laid on a crash for the kids. And the saddest thing of all of that was when it came to the World Cup all the tourists coming in weren't brave enough to come out on the tour buses to the townships and buy.
Maximiliano: Really?
Mitchell: No. Or they were just too busy in their hotels or watching the football. And that actually broke my heart, that. Because they These women had worked so hard to make these beautiful materials and what have you. And Yeah. It's a great shame.
Maximiliano: Yeah.
Mitchell: Again, you've got to be brave. You just got to do it. You know, and then my partner was pretty said when I first came out from England, he said, "You have to go and see the township. Do a proper tour." And we did. We tried the local alcohol, which was you know, all right. It's strong. It just had to be.
Maximiliano: To say the least.
Mitchell: To say the least. But it was lovely going and seeing these, you know, and these lovely people, you know.
Maximiliano: Something that I make a make a very big distinction is somebody who at least in Spanish is all right to say so. Somebody who is a tourist and differentiating them from somebody who tourist from a traveler.
Mitchell: Yeah.
Maximiliano: So, it's it's just completely different. One goes for the five-star hotel or the hotel and like loves to go to McDonald's. That's it.
Mitchell: And then the other one just immerses himself in the culture.
Maximiliano: And that's a traveler.
Mitchell: And that's a traveler.
Maximiliano: Yeah. And we did a lot of I mean I joined a church out there and we did Alpha courses for the homeless.
Mitchell: Yeah.
Maximiliano: There was a program out there called U-Turn which tries to get the homeless back on board.
Mitchell: Mhm.
Maximiliano: And so we did the Alpha there cuz we had a captive audience really.
Mitchell: Mhm.
Maximiliano: And a lot of them got it and understood it. I really felt my heart is for the homeless and I really felt this is what I want to do and I do it here in Bristol now as well. And again they're so artistic, they're so creative so we could do all that as well and they loved the fact I was an artist and she had something to talk to about and I think you have to you have to be a traveler, not a tourist. I feel that. I feel that.
Maximiliano: 100%.
Mitchell: Having said that, to lie by the pool for a bit with a nice cocktail, I can do that as well.
Maximiliano: Yeah, but that you can do anywhere in the world. So, I I just don't
Mitchell: I know.
Maximiliano: I I fully don't get it.
Mitchell: No.
Maximiliano: I
Mitchell: But we're all made differently.
Maximiliano: Yeah. Yeah.
Mitchell: how it is.
Maximiliano: Uh yeah, I used to hitchhike quite a bit so
Mitchell: Yeah, that's that's how you learn.
Maximiliano: I I got into it.
Mitchell: Definitely.
Maximiliano: Um Pam, so how did then your style develop from this huge lot paintings to this size? I mean 6 ft so about all of that for the audience looking is like all of that to this
Mitchell: And it's I mean I wish I wish I could have a big studio again but my partner uh really wasn't very well for all sorts of reasons and in the end he ended up getting cancer um, and we bought a little flat here in Bristol to do what they say the swallows and swifts that people they go between you spend the summer months in South Africa and then the winter comes you come to England because that's the northern hemisphere and you've got the summer here. So you try and go between the two and he really felt that very strongly.
Maximiliano: That's
Mitchell: You know, I'm used to England so but he was also used
Maximiliano: Instinct.
Mitchell: I'm used to the rain and the grey skies but also um, he was English so he had could have NHS treatment.
Maximiliano: Oh, um
Mitchell: So we came back here for the treat you know, but within two months he was dead. It was just it was just brutal and that was was absolutely terrible. So then I had to make the decision whether I go back to Cape Town or whether I stay here and my children all were here and my grandchildren. So in the end family sort of took over and I stayed here but it's a one bedroom flat. Albeit it's got lovely high ceilings, it's light and it's airy. But where do you store all your paintings? So I had to make the decision. You know, and before I got on to the pop art in England I was having this problem thinking well, how do I paint these paintings? I've got to pay bills, my partner's dead, what do I do? And again I talk about my faith but I went to bed one night and I just sort of prayed and I said, "Look, I've got bills to pay. I don't know what to do." And the next morning I woke up with this idea to paint in oils fruit and veg which is completely not what I was doing.
Maximiliano: Mhm.
Mitchell: Completely not. Okay, and the word alla prima came up which I'd never heard of and that means to paint in one go.
Maximiliano: Alla
Mitchell: Alla prima.
Maximiliano: Alla prima.
Mitchell: Is that Italian? Prima is first and alla mean does it mean I don't know but it means painting in one go. So I went on to YouTube
Maximiliano: Okay.
Mitchell: and looked and there was this American teacher.
Maximiliano: As in drawing the the whole paint
Mitchell: Doing it in all one go.
Maximiliano: Oh, okay. I see.
Mitchell: paint in one session.
Maximiliano: Okay.
Mitchell: And there was this teacher showing you how to do alla prima.
Maximiliano: Okay.
Mitchell: So I thought, well, I'll give it a go. And I painted, I think, some bananas. But bright colors cuz that's me. So it was yellow bananas with a bright purple background.
Maximiliano: Mhm.
Mitchell: And these really took off, but they were small. They were 8-in square.
Maximiliano: Mhm.
Mitchell: So for me, this definitely came from God for me personally. And I started selling these. And again, I'll never be rich and famous, but I made regular income from it.
Maximiliano: Who knows?
Mitchell: Well, well, because I stopped doing them, but I did you know, I'd make a a good bit of money each month. Not a massive amount, but you know, and I did that for a few years, and then I just got stale, I think. I You know, a lot of people in Bristol had the paintings. They all knew stale. I I felt I'd sort of got I'd run out of ideas. I didn't want I didn't want to paint them anymore. I would just paint cuz I'd paint what I see. I'd paint apples or pears, always with a lovely
Maximiliano: Cup of coffee.
Mitchell: Cup cup of coffee, I'd do that.
Maximiliano: Legs.
Mitchell: Legs, eggs, all of that, but all oil paintings. So painting realistically. But always with a a good shadow and a spotlight so you had nice light variation between the dark and the light. Um and I just thought I'm just done with this. And again, I felt God directing me back to the pop art. So I started doing these, and then um I saw in a magazine, I think it was in The Times, this exhibition for this Michael Craig-Martin, who I'd never heard of. I'm sorry, but I hadn't.
Maximiliano: Mhm.
Mitchell: And he's now, I think, 80. He's still alive painting this fantastic pop art work. I was still calling my work line art then.
Maximiliano: Mhm.
Mitchell: But I saw it and I thought, this is pop art. And they were having a retrospective at the Royal Academy in London. This was a year and a half ago. So, I went with my daughter and I was absolutely blown away because I thought, this is what I do. But, he's rich and famous and I'm not, but I'm not bitter. And he paints on aluminum, which I think is fantastic if you could do that. I don't know how he does it.
Maximiliano: Painting on aluminum?
Mitchell: I mean, I mean massive, again massive, and the Royal Academy. And what they did at the Royal Academy, they'd paint the walls of the Royal Academy in these lovely bright colors
Maximiliano: Mhm.
Mitchell: to accentuate his art.
Maximiliano: Really?
Mitchell: is fantastic.
Maximiliano: When when you got the Royal Academy of Arts painting the walls because of you?
Mitchell: Teal walls with red paintings and red walls with yellow paintings. There was one wall which was white and I didn't feel his painting stood out as well.
Maximiliano: Really?
Mitchell: Yeah, the color just everything popped and I came away thinking, this is what I have to do.
Maximiliano: And how do you reckon he inspired you or how do you reckon he changed your view on your art?
Mitchell: I think the color aspect to go much much brighter. I was still in Cape Town, I was still doing a lot of just cream neutrals.
Maximiliano: shy?
Mitchell: You reckon? Yes, yes, I do. And just creams, neutrals, touch of red, black outline. And I'd begun to do a bit of color, but nothing like I do now.
Maximiliano: Mhm.
Mitchell: And it just blew me away. It just it just blew
Maximiliano: Have you ever met him?
Mitchell: No, I'd love to. I could marry him, couldn't I?
Maximiliano: Oh.
Mitchell: No.
Maximiliano: Well.
Mitchell: I I I've No, I've No, I've never met him.
Maximiliano: Michelle, Michelle. Michelle, come on, mate. Come to Bristol.
Mitchell: I would love to meet him.
Maximiliano: up.
Mitchell: I would love to meet him. I really want to just talk to him about his art and, you know, um his work is fantastic and any artist interested tall in pop art, go see his work. Look it up. It's just mind-blowing.
Maximiliano: Mhm.
Mitchell: It is absolutely is. And he does household objects, he does portraits, he does everything. He really did influence me a lot. I'm always very honest about it. I say he influenced me, you know.
Maximiliano: I I I really think it's beautiful the idea of the internet.
Maximiliano: Mhm.
Mitchell: Because it lets us know what other people are doing as well.
Maximiliano: Yeah.
Mitchell: So, for example, in this case, you've never met this guy.
Maximiliano: No, never heard of him until last year.
Mitchell: And well, he basically changed your whole
Maximiliano: idea of your your approach to art.
Mitchell: Yeah. I mean, years ago I went to San Francisco with my partner.
Maximiliano: Mhm.
Mitchell: Um and there was a book there he bought me it was called all artists theft.
Maximiliano: Okay.
Mitchell: And actually, it's true. All artists theft. We may not realize it. Maybe all subconscious, but we do.
Maximiliano: That's brilliant.
Mitchell: You know. Like the art dealer saying to me, put a bit of red in your painting that's what Turner did. So, I then went and looked up Turner and sure enough he puts red or orange and draws the eye.
Maximiliano: And sure enough you did it.
Mitchell: I did. You know, so I think art is theft.
Maximiliano: Yeah.
Mitchell: And that's fine. It's a bit like music. You know, we all get get ideas well, I'm not a musician, but I imagine you get ideas from other musicians and you know. The amount of people who sing like Amy Winehouse these days cuz she was so inspirational.
Maximiliano: Yeah.
Mitchell: But then they do their own take on it.
Maximiliano: Mhm.
Mitchell: got my own take on the art. You know, so it's similar to his. I mean, I don't think Michael Craig-Martin does loads of women whereas my thing is a lot female focused.
Maximiliano: Mhm.
Mitchell: That's my sort of thing which makes it different. I hope I hope.
Maximiliano: You hope? Oh, fair enough. Um so, I want to quote you now. Uh so, when you returned to Bristol this me looking at your biography. Sorry for being creepy.
Mitchell: That's okay. It's allowed.
Maximiliano: But but yeah, it's a part of my investigation. Um you said something that I really really love. We were talking about it before the podcast, but it's you can really you can My bad. My bad, guys. I don't understand my own writing. Uh you can really be depressed and a victim or you can grab life by the balls and just do it.
Mitchell: Yeah.
Maximiliano: Explain us that approach to life.
Mitchell: I think it's I think with age comes a little bit of wisdom and experience, I think. And after my second husband left me for a natural blonde 20 years younger than me, um I got very depressed about that. And I just And again, I prayed about it a lot, and I think you can get depressed and you can become become a victim in life, or you can go the other way. I just say, "I'm not going to have this. I'm going to grab life. I'm going to do it." And I started going on solo holidays after my partner died. Again, I could have just been pretty sort of, you know, self-pitying. And I thought, "Well, actually, you could still go on holiday on your own. You can have fun as a woman."
Maximiliano: Mhm.
Mitchell: You know, but you've got to make that decision. And a lot of my friends sort of just sit and think, "Oh, I'm so sorry. My husband's died." Whatever. Well, you can live like that or you can just get up and just do it. And I do feel just do it. Just do what you want because life is short. You don't know how long you're going to live. And the solo holidays were actually a lot of fun. I did them for two or three years. And the thing about that is as a woman, you go with a group, and during the day, you do whatever you want. But in the evenings, there was always a group of you together, chat and have fun. And And that was a lot of fun. I did a couple of holidays completely on my own. And that was also okay. You know, you've just got to I think change your mindset and just grab life and just just do it. Otherwise, you just sit at home. And I know so many people who do that, and it's so so sad because we've still got life in us, you know. I'm lucky, I think, that I'm an artist. I've got a motive to get up every morning cuz I paint. I've always got that motivation. But again, if you don't paint, find something else. Do something else. Join a poetry society. Join a photographic society. Just Yeah. It's about meeting other people, I think. I think we need communication, especially as we get older. We need to get We need to talk to people, share things, and don't just sit at home and get sad. I know.
Maximiliano: Yeah. I mean, what what is it this This is saying about being too We are When we're old, we're wise. When we were young, we have full of We're full of energy. But the problem is that when we're young, we're just dumb. We're
Mitchell: That's true.
Maximiliano: We just have no energy.
Mitchell: But we think we know it all when we're young. But actually, we don't.
Maximiliano: No, we don't. Not at all.
Mitchell: I think you need life's knocks to give you that bit of life experience and wisdom. And I I do feel that. I've certainly had sort of quite a few knocks in my life, but I'm still here. You know? And my faith has got stronger. Definitely got stronger. You know, yeah, when when Les was dying, he was down the road in a care home. I used to pray every day to the Holy Spirit to just give me the courage to get through another day, to be strong for him. And I did. And of course, he died, but at the after, my faith was stronger.
Maximiliano: Do you reckon that experience uh
Mitchell: I wouldn't want to go through it again, but it's I think I often think why did I have to go through it? And sometimes I think maybe it's to help other younger people who are going through it to show to them that you can get through this, and your faith can get stronger. You just have to trust God completely. And that's a lesson I've had to learn in the last few years is to really, really trust God because he knows best. He knows me better than I know myself. But I think so often, um, ego comes into it. I think if we could get rid of our egos, life would be a lot easier. But with life, we want to make things right. We want to be in control. And I find when I do that, it never works. So, every day I have to renew that. I have to sort of pray and say, "Over to you, God. Show me what to do today." But that's come with age, Max. I wasn't like that when I was your age. Not at all.
Maximiliano: Yeah, fair enough.
Mitchell: Which is why I got divorced twice, probably. But, you know,
Maximiliano: Yeah.
Mitchell: Yeah, but I I wouldn't It was awful when he was dying. It was absolutely terrible because it was so brutal. And I think it was skin cancer. And I think a lot of South Africans, like a lot of people living in hot countries,
Maximiliano: Yeah.
Mitchell: you know, you you get You have to be careful. And he was a builder back in the '70s. And there wasn't SPF then, factor, whatever. He wouldn't have worn it anyway. So, he had this wonderful suntan. He was a builder. He was out building and, you know, doing these wonderful houses. But, of course, it got him in the end, you know? And it was Yeah, it was very brutal. You know, but here I am.
Maximiliano: Yeah, here you are.
Mitchell: Yeah.
Maximiliano: Um, yeah. Uh, what is it in the Bible it says something like uh, God uh, purifies us uh, just like he purifies silver.
Mitchell: That's right. Yes.
Maximiliano: Something something similar.
Mitchell: the dross out of the silver. Then you're left with the the beautiful part, aren't you?
Maximiliano: I uh, heard in a reel so on Instagram. I was searching. And uh, they said that somebody asked, "Uh, how do you purify silver? Like, what's the process?" You have to take the silver and put it in the middle of the fire, not not on the side cuz it's not hot enough. You put them on the middle of the fire. And when do you know it's done? It's purified? When you can see your reflection on it.
Mitchell: That's right. You're right. I have heard of that saying your reflection.
Maximiliano: The That That's why I love reading the Bible, because it has such a beautiful meaning to it.
Mitchell: It does, and you can always find any answer in the Bible. You know, you really can. Um and I do think that with my own life. I often think I had you know, why did I have to go through all this and all this and all this? Because he wanted me where I am now, that I can hopefully help other people. And say it's okay, you know, you can survive this, but just trust God. Just put your trust in God.
Maximiliano: It's another saying. I don't know why I'm I'm like just remembering sayings, but um this is saying about life is a tragedy uh when you live it, but it's a comedy when you live it on reverse. Something like that.
Mitchell: there's also the other one about um we we live life looking forward, but we understand it looking backwards.
Maximiliano: Yeah. It just makes no sense looking forward.
Mitchell: No. And then you look back at my life and think, well, actually God was directing it all the way.
Maximiliano: Yeah, that was like the sense of it.
Mitchell: But I wish he could have sorted me out much earlier.
Maximiliano: Yeah.
Mitchell: Okay, why did I have to go through all this? And I've got a very nice friend now who lives in New Zealand, and he said, "Well, that particularly for that reason. He was pruning you all the time, pruning you, so you can now hopefully be some sort of help to others."
Maximiliano: Yeah.
Mitchell: In a funny sort of way.
Maximiliano: Oh. Are you a help to others? Do you reckon?
Mitchell: I mean, that's talking too much about ego again, isn't it? I don't know, but anything I do comes obviously the Holy Spirit working through me. But I think I I do help younger people sometimes, purely because I'm I'm old, and I've I've been through it all. Not a lot phases me. Not a lot phases me these days, you know, and that you can But it is about as I keep saying, trusting in God. And that's fine. And spending time with him. Every morning I spend time. If I don't, I find my day doesn't go as well. I need that time in the morning with him. Because I'm an early bird. You know, um my other friend in New Zealand, he does more in the evenings praying. So, we're all different.
Maximiliano: Mhm.
Mitchell: Yeah. So, Mhm.
Maximiliano: That's four m's.
Mitchell: That was That was four That was four m's. Damn. I I just want to go back to the restriction of the space mainly.
Maximiliano: Yeah.
Mitchell: Um Do you cuz uh I think somewhere in your biography or I think it was Oh, no, it was now in the conversation. You said that you moved to like a smaller place back going back to Bristol.
Maximiliano: Mhm.
Mitchell: So, do you reckon that actually that changing of space was sort of
Maximiliano: restricting?
Mitchell: Yeah, was it restrictive?
Maximiliano: I would love to do big paintings again, you know, but I haven't even got a studio these days. I know. And when I did this mentoring with LinkedIn, did we talk about that? We haven't talked about that now, have we? Um I always recommend LinkedIn as a professional website for artists to look up and join. It's more hard work than Instagram because it's not visual. Well, it is visual. Instagram's completely
Maximiliano: completely visual.
Mitchell: Mhm.
Maximiliano: LinkedIn, you've got to work at the context and content which is fine. And I say to artists, rather than just approaching other artists on LinkedIn, start looking at people's feeds who aren't artists and start commenting on their posts and what have you and you start building up a little dialogue with them. And after a while, they think, "Who is this Mitch Watkins?" And they're going to go and look her up.
Maximiliano: Why why Why are they talking to me?
Mitchell: Yes. And then they find art. And I have sold. But what I was going to say is that there was um somebody who follows me on there and he sent me LinkedIn. I think you should go in for this art mentoring competition that's on LinkedIn. And I said, "Yeah, well, you know, I'm not a real artist and I can't do this." And he said, "No, give it a go." And it was a company called Chorus Art. I don't think they're around anymore, but they set off this this competition for a year's art mentoring and you had to submit work. So I submitted some of my little oil paintings of fruit and veg. And at the last minute I put in one of my swimming pool pop art paintings and that was the one that got accepted. And it was fantastic. I had a whole year's mentoring in London. It was absolutely amazing what they did. They had a great launch, they promoted me. Really worth doing and that was through LinkedIn.
Maximiliano: I just love how we just sometimes do things that we just say like, "Oh, no, this won't work." Suddenly it works and you're like, "What?"
Mitchell: And I do think that has really given me a step forward.
Maximiliano: Yeah.
Mitchell: To going in for other exhibitions and what have you. And they were really supportive and made me believe in myself as a pop artist. They gave me confidence. So artists, go for LinkedIn as well as Instagram. Don't do Twitter. Forget that bit.
Maximiliano: Why why not Twitter?
Mitchell: Well, I think I think it's become
Maximiliano: Why are you against ex
Mitchell: It's I think it's become quite toxic.
Maximiliano: Is it?
Mitchell: Yeah, I mean, not so much for the art. I just put the paintings up on Twitter and that's fine. I think it when I first started doing social media, Twitter was brilliant. I did a lot on that, but I just feel it has gone downhill.
Maximiliano: and stuff.
Mitchell: Yeah. Threads I like, which is through Facebook. I do a lot of posting there, but mostly it's Instagram.
Maximiliano: Mhm.
Mitchell: And then LinkedIn.
Maximiliano: Yeah.
Mitchell: Okay. So I want to quote you again. I got to say.
Maximiliano: Okay.
Mitchell: Didn't I?
Maximiliano: You did.
Mitchell: Okay.
Maximiliano: Last time I checked it looked Uh I used to go to the library and copy uh from Vogue magazine all these women. Um and But there were women without any character.
Mitchell: Mhm.
Maximiliano: Faces and
Mitchell: Sorry?
Maximiliano: No faces.
Mitchell: Uh I used to go to the library and copy uh women from Vogue.
Maximiliano: Mhm.
Mitchell: Uh but they were women without any character.
Maximiliano: So, what it was when I lived in Cape Town, um there was a lovely little library near me.
Mitchell: Mhm.
Maximiliano: Um where they had Vogue magazines. And I would take if I saw what I used to do in those days, I liked female poses, fashion poses.
Mitchell: Mhm.
Maximiliano: So, I'd take pictures with the permission of the library, I'd take photos of these women. But for some reason, I realized now why, I didn't want to have the faces. It was purely just the pose. And again, it was those days, it was cream with a neutral with black outline with red. And I think the reason for that, and I've developed it over the last few years, is I think women are so often judged on the beauty or not of their faces. And I certainly was when I was younger, which I hated. I absolutely hated that. And I think we're so much more than that. We're so much more than just You see all these the girls today, they all to me look the same, really beautiful, but they all look the same to me, you know. And I thought I want to concentrate on more than that.
Mitchell: Yeah.
Maximiliano: You know, it's about our character. So, I just leave out the face completely. The facial details, never do that. Or I crop the head off completely. Just head and shoulders. You just the shoulders now. Um and that's become my sort of thing. But initially it was just women in fashion poses. Since then I've sort of developed the women a bit more doing other things. Um Or sometimes I leave the woman out of the pop up completely and just have a pair of their sunglasses by the pool or one shoe or something or a cocktail, but you know it's a woman. Because I'm a woman. But that took a while to develop that. Yeah, and I just get crossed sometimes that we're looked at on our faces, you know, and how beautiful. And a lot of us aren't beautiful and then it's it's hard. Why should we be judged on our beauty?
Mitchell: Yeah. I mean, yeah. No, it's uh quite interesting. Uh the reason why I was saying that is just uh mainly because I think what I got from it uh right now is that it's quite difficult as uh and this is like fighting against my nature a little bit but it's very weird to surpass the the just the first instinct I would say. So as a man I tried to I I rarely date I got to say I really I just don't
Maximiliano: Well that's interesting I wonder why anyway.
Mitchell: Probably probably because I don't like this try cuz it's a lot of effort as a man cuz I'm when I date I try to date to marry. So it's very difficult to surpass your own instincts and just try to look for the character.
Maximiliano: Yeah I mean I think that obviously we're talking about dating obviously there has to be chemistry.
Mitchell: Yeah.
Maximiliano: You've got to get through that but I wasn't painting for that but I think you have got to have the chemistry and then you get to know the person you know but I shouldn't I don't think it should be that alone.
Mitchell: Yeah no.
Maximiliano: You know but I think I was painting for a different reason really I think. Yeah whatever I think having gone through a couple of divorces I was perhaps a bit more anti-men at the time I'm I'm not I've got sons and I've got grandsons and what have you but at the time I think I was.
Mitchell: Are you sure?
Maximiliano: Definitely not anymore but I think I was at the time because I had a bit of a few knocks in my life but I'm not anymore and I've got great sons you know who are really great role models. So maybe that could have been why I started doing that and I think the whole alone not lonely series about women going off on their own and doing their own thing was partly to do with all of that that was going through my life at the time I think life experience affects how you paint.
Mitchell: Definitely.
Maximiliano: Definitely you know and I'm sort of in a much better place well not better I'm in a different place these days I'm sort of content with my life and so I'm going away from that slightly.
Mitchell: Yeah.
Maximiliano: I want to get more into the swimming pools again I loved doing swimming pools loved doing swimming pools.
Mitchell: Going back to Cape Town?
Maximiliano: I don't know if I will anymore Uh I think those because Les has died and a lot of my friends have moved away from there now and and it's expensive to get there, you know? So, possibly not that. But, my daughter always says, "Mom, you can go to warmer places nearer home. You can go to France." Sunshine's there, which of course is true. You know, uh yeah.
Mitchell: Might might might go to sunnier places?
Maximiliano: Yeah, a nice trip to New Zealand might be nice.
Mitchell: Ooh, okay.
Maximiliano: day. Well, that's a long that's very expensive, so probably not, but
Mitchell: Yeah, no. Uh I mean, uh I really wanted to talk to uh you about the Alone Not Lonely series. Mainly because um you said that you were traveling alone.
Maximiliano: Mhm.
Mitchell: And I want to know if that series was inspired in that
Maximiliano: Definitely, you know, because I think after Les died, you know, you do think, "Ooh, am I ever going to get a holiday again?"
Mitchell: Mhm.
Maximiliano: And I thought, "That's a stupid attitude. I want the sunshine. I want the warmth. I can go off by myself." And the first time after he died, I did find it hard because it was all couples and me. And one couple were very kind to me and took me under their wing, you know, "Come and sit with us. Come and have a drink at the bar." But, the fact is they were a couple, which is why I then sort of decided I'd try the solo holidays. And I went to this lovely place in Kefalonia, the Astri Hotel, fantastic. And I saw a woman who was in our group and she had these amazing sunglasses, all different colors. She had about five or six different pairs. And I just said to her, "Would you mind if I borrowed your sunglasses and if I stand in the pool and and position the sunglasses, you know, could I use them to take some photos?" And I got all these wonderful images. And from that developed the idea of women traveling alone and having fun. There was this woman on the road with these amazing sunglasses and she was perfectly happy with her life and I thought, "Well, you can do it." You just got to You just got to be brave. Just got to grab life. Enjoy life and just do it. Be brave. And I haven't really looked back from that. You know, um yeah. So, and that's how that whole series developed. And the other one the series is called She Is Unknown and that's particularly the women without the faces.
Maximiliano: Mhm.
Mitchell: No one knows her because they don't know her face, but she's more than that. And she can do whatever she wants if she's got the courage to do it. Why not?
Maximiliano: I love that. I love that the the fact that you end up with if she has the courage to do it.
Mitchell: Yeah.
Maximiliano: Cuz I feel that's that's something that is uh that I saw a lot cuz I used to work with children.
Mitchell: Oh, okay.
Maximiliano: Um between 11 and uh well, technically 18, but mainly 11 to 15.
Mitchell: Mhm.
Maximiliano: And most of the job that I did with uh the girls was just to encourage them. Just like go on, just do it. Like I can see that like everybody can see that you're capable.
Mitchell: Yeah.
Maximiliano: Just go and do it. Into the boys it was like, "Yo, chill out. Like just Why do you try to explode the deodorant in a tent? Like that that's like what is going on with you?" So,
Mitchell: Yeah.
Maximiliano: with the boys it's just like, "You're mortal. Like relax."
Mitchell: Yes.
Maximiliano: And with the girls it's just like, "Go on. Just do it."
Mitchell: Yes. It's I think what it is so much of courage is feeling the fear and doing it anyway.
Maximiliano: Mhm.
Mitchell: Somebody said that and I quite like that because we do get fearful. Mhm. But just do it. And for me I'd say pray about it, you know, because that does definitely helps. Definitely, you know. But yeah, and boys and girls I was they are different. I always tell the story when I had my I've got two sons and a daughter. And I had a a saucepan rack
Maximiliano: Mhm.
Mitchell: with saucepans and I'd give my daughter a wooden spoon and she'd pull the saucepans out and stir, you know, be like mommy. My son, one of my sons would pull the saucepan out, turn it upside down and bang it as hard as he could with the spoon to make as much noise as possible. And I didn't teach them that. That's how they were.
Maximiliano: Yeah.
Mitchell: But I shouldn't I shouldn't generalize. I shouldn't. But that's certainly how it was with my three at the time.
Maximiliano: Yeah. Yeah, going back to the code of courage, I heard once um courage is believing that God is in control.
Mitchell: Yeah. It's true.
Maximiliano: So just go
Mitchell: It's true.
Maximiliano: Just do it and then God will be in control anyway. So like it's
Mitchell: Yeah. And that's taken me a long time to get to that. Long time thinking actually. Courage is believing God's in control.
Maximiliano: Yeah.
Mitchell: And we don't want the ego comes in and we want to do it.
Maximiliano: Ooh.
Mitchell: the self-control. And I've had to learn that one.
Maximiliano: I'm I'm struggling with between ego and calling. So I don't know how to separate the the two like cuz I feel this strong pull towards something.
Mitchell: Mhm.
Maximiliano: And I don't know how to separate it of ego because I I just know I'm being pulled towards it. So it's it's quite weird.
Mitchell: I think if it's as strong as a calling as that usually means that comes from God. I would say pray about it. And I I know that what I've done until recently, I would do it first and then say to God help me get this right. But actually what you've got to do is the other way around.
Maximiliano: Other way around? Okay.
Mitchell: Yeah. And that's I've learned since I've got older.
Maximiliano: Help me get this right and then
Mitchell: Yes. If I feel a calling, I say to God, is this from you? What do you think? Should I do this? You know.
Maximiliano: Yeah.
Mitchell: In fact, with this morning actually, I was praying yesterday about this and I said I'm not too sure how to do this. And I felt very strongly come into my head, feel free to talk about God. Cuz I wasn't going to at all.
Maximiliano: No, why? Woah, woah, woah, woah, woah.
Mitchell: because I thought we were talking about art, but then I thought that's if it's about art, you're just talking about me. Well, I am anyway, but bring God into because a large part of this has become through God. Well, all of it has.
Maximiliano: How do you reckon is God's How how do you portray God in your paintings?
Mitchell: I don't. If you think of it, I'm painting women with no faces.
Maximiliano: Mhm.
Mitchell: You know, but God has given me the ideas and guiding me. And I feel with all of this, it's all in his hands now. And it may I may find that I never sell another painting. If that doesn't If it doesn't work, well, I think that also comes from God. He wants me to do something else.
Maximiliano: Mhm.
Mitchell: And he may. He may. I don't know, but then I am now trusting him with that. I'm trusting that he'll get me into exhibitions and so forth. And if he doesn't, well, then there's something else. Like starting me off with the oil painting of fruit and veg, that came from him. And then I felt very strongly, I came to an end with that, and that came from him. And now we're doing this, and yeah, in God's hands.
Maximiliano: Yeah.
Mitchell: But it's taken me a long time to get to that. A long time. I should have done years ago, but
Maximiliano: I want to ask you about the
Mitchell: Oh, Lord, what's coming?
Maximiliano: No, about you traveling alone, and how that has build you as a woman most cuz I I used to travel alone, but I never saw a solo traveling woman. I saw a pair of girls, which was like amazing at the time. I was like, "Woah, what are you guys doing?"
Mitchell: Yeah.
Maximiliano: But I never saw I know, I did I did I did one
Mitchell: Yeah, surely, yeah.
Maximiliano: 67-year-old woman travel backpacking.
Mitchell: You see, I don't Yeah, I wouldn't do that.
Maximiliano: Italian though.
Mitchell: I wouldn't hitchhike on my own. And also I've got osteoporosis. I broke my back a few years ago. I broke my wrist. I've broken my foot.
Maximiliano: Okay.
Mitchell: If I fall over I break bones.
Maximiliano: All right.
Mitchell: So things like a backpack I just can't doing can't do. And this friend I keep mentioning from New Zealand um sort of did make cuz he does the Camino
Maximiliano: Okay.
Mitchell: and had sort of suggested I sort of come and join him for a bit and I said, well I don't think I can because A he's an experienced walker and he'd want to go and stride ahead and on my own I said if you if you have a rocky path I fall over I break bones. How do I then get to a doctor? How do I get to hospital? How do I walk with one of these boots?
Maximiliano: Yeah.
Mitchell: Um so it does limit me in that respect. So I've had to do more safe traveling on my own. You know. Or I've gone with a girlfriend and that's worked as well. With the actual and I walk I'm always by myself. I've got no problems at all with that. I wouldn't at Cape Town I wouldn't go to night on my own whereas I would here in Bedminster.
Maximiliano: I'd be fine.
Mitchell: But I wouldn't in Cape Town at all.
Maximiliano: No?
Mitchell: No. And working in the township which I loved I wouldn't do that at night.
Maximiliano: Mhm.
Mitchell: I just you you're just asking for trouble as a white woman. Um But otherwise I'm I'm sort of fine. I'm in fact I like my own company most of the time. I'm very happy with it. And my life is very busy.
Maximiliano: How did you feel like find comfort
Mitchell: Find what?
Maximiliano: Find comfort in in in your with yourself?
Mitchell: I think
Maximiliano: Cuz see I see most women don't. That's that's the thing. I I in my my opinion maybe maybe I'm completely wrong. But most women like tend to find it very hard.
Mitchell: No, I like I think initially when I first was on my own here in Bristol I thought, how am I going to cope with this? And panicked. And then I sort of got used to and again having God in your life does help. I've always got him I can talk to. But also I think the painting you know I've always got that to motivate me, Max. I can paint every day and I'm very happy. I've got some music on, I watch some TV, and I paint away. I'm very happy walking by myself. I have no problems with that. Having said that, my life is very busy. You know, I've got three children, I've got the grandchildren, I've got the art, I've got church, I've got the gallery. My daughter said, like, "You Mom, you're busier than me."
Maximiliano: Yeah.
Mitchell: You know, but I think in order to do that, I then need I'm very sociable, but I need time on my own to recharge my batteries. So, I can then do that. And she's the same, my daughter is exactly the same. Otherwise, I'll just I couldn't do it.
Maximiliano: Stab someone.
Mitchell: Yeah, I need Yes, absolutely. Times I think I want to stab someone, you know, yeah. But I don't. Um so, time on my own is definitely necessary.
Maximiliano: Yeah, I've never stabbed anyone. Could have done it possibly one of the husbands, but, you know.
Mitchell: Yeah.
Maximiliano: Um but no, it's I'm fine.
Mitchell: Mhm.
Maximiliano: You know, I miss companionship sometimes. Um you know, I was going to say I miss someone putting out the bins for me, but actually my son does that and my daughter. Cuz of my broken back, they do put the bins out for me. Cuz that's limited me big time when I broke my back. That still left me with I've always got lower back pain. You know, so that does limit me. I had to stop doing the gym for that reason, you know. Cuz again, if I fall off the treadmill, I break a bone.
Maximiliano: Yeah.
Mitchell: So, I look absolutely fine until I fall over.
Maximiliano: Until I die. Until I'm half dead, you know.
Mitchell: Exactly. But I won't let it stop me. And I think with those osteoporosis, you have to keep mobile.
Maximiliano: Mhm.
Mitchell: And also getting older, keep mobile. Walk. Do anything. Do any sport if you can. If nothing else, just walk.
Maximiliano: Yeah.
Mitchell: And if you sit in a chair, you're you're done for.
Maximiliano: Yeah, I know that's yeah, that that that that
Mitchell: back, it's no good to just sit. I have to be I have to sit to paint these days because of my back. Cuz if I stand too long, my back hurts.
Maximiliano: Oh.
Mitchell: But you adapt. You you adapt to anything, really. I moved from this lovely big flat in Cape Town to this one-bedroom flat, but you adapt.
Maximiliano: Mhm.
Mitchell: You know, I've got no balcony and I've got no garden. But there are parks I can get to. You know, you just adapt.
Maximiliano: Yeah.
Mitchell: And you have to be content with your life. And I am content with my life. And that I think comes with being older, being content.
Maximiliano: Yeah.
Mitchell: You know, yes, I feel I feel real joy. I have peace. But it's taken me a long time to get to that.
Maximiliano: Do you reckon it's possible for young people to be content like how would they
Mitchell: Yes, I would You see, I didn't come to this till I was 55. If you can get around when you're in your your age, which is perfectly possible, great, go for it. But I didn't have that. I was never taken to church. I never had any sort of Christian upbringing at all. So I had to find it for myself.
Maximiliano: Do you reckon it comes from God then?
Mitchell: Oh, yeah. Yeah.
Maximiliano: So it's just finding yourself
Mitchell: I think God calls you.
Maximiliano: Okay.
Mitchell: I I definitely feel that Jesus calls you. Yeah. At different stages in our life.
Maximiliano: Yeah.
Mitchell: Definitely feel that. But I didn't realize it at the time. Not at all.
Maximiliano: No.
Mitchell: You know, I wanted to I used to believe firmly in horoscopes when I was younger. And I can remember once printing off a whole year of horoscopes by this astrologer directing my life. It was after my husband left me. Thinking this is it. That astrologer then died the following year. So. But I did all that, you know. And I wish I could have not had any of that and found God when I was in my 20s, when I was looking. But there we are. There was a reason for that.
Maximiliano: When did you find God?
Mitchell: When what?
Maximiliano: When did you find God?
Mitchell: Well, I started looking from the age of about 14. I'd take myself to church.
Maximiliano: And then
Mitchell: I remember had a flirtation with the Russian Orthodox for a bit church and and just gradually
Maximiliano: The Russian Orthodox? That's crazy.
Mitchell: I remember going to have tea with the bishop in London, the Russian Orthodox bishop. Had tea with him. Yeah. I can't remember why. He filled my handbag with loads of sweets when I left. He was absolutely lovely. But I can't remember now why I had that flirtation with the Russian Orthodox, but I did. Um
Maximiliano: And a priest as well, well, yeah.
Mitchell: the typical as you imagine with the beard, and he was just a lovely, lovely man.
Maximiliano: Yeah.
Mitchell: Can't remember his name now. And I was about 18 or 20 then. Then I sort of started going to English, you know, Anglican Church of England church did for the rest of my life really until I discovered God properly.
Maximiliano: And
Mitchell: And enjoyed it for the fellowship, but I didn't really feel I was in a relationship with God. And that's what the Alpha course did for me.
Maximiliano: Yeah.
Mitchell: You know, you learn to
Maximiliano: And that was in Cape Town when you were around
Mitchell: Yeah, it was in Cape Town, so I was 50 50-55. And then I'll never look back. Cuz to me it's about a relationship with God. It's I I don't like the word religion. I think that's man-made. I think it is about a relationship with Jesus, a relationship with God. Talking to him like I would talk to you.
Maximiliano: So you're truly Baptist.
Mitchell: What What does that mean, Baptist? I never know what all these different denominations mean.
Maximiliano: And that That's I've I have this problem all the time cuz I I don't fully understand it myself.
Mitchell: But you said to me you're fully Baptist. So what does that Why do you think that?
Maximiliano: I understand of of Baptist churches is that they are they're all about the relationship with God. So it's you your relationship with God.
Mitchell: Yeah.
Maximiliano: And the community uh serves as a helper to maintain that relationship.
Mitchell: Yeah, that's spot on.
Maximiliano: And uh the Bible comes first. Nothing goes above the Bible.
Mitchell: Yeah, okay. Well, that's
Maximiliano: All the teachings are in the Bible, and it's your relationship with God.
Mitchell: I think the Vineyard church was like That was the church I joined when I came back here.
Maximiliano: Okay.
Mitchell: John John Wimber set it up back in the whenever it was in Temple. And it's very similar. They're very Holy Spirit focused.
Maximiliano: Okay.
Mitchell: Um and because it was a Vineyard church in Cape Town, I then when I came back here, I looked for one in Bristol.
Maximiliano: I don't know what a Vineyard
Mitchell: And it's great. And that's down in Broadmead, in the old fire station.
Maximiliano: All right.
Mitchell: Great church. And I was up was with them until about a year ago when I just thought with the osteoporosis, I don't really want to keep driving into town in the winter. With the With seriously with the ice. If I fall over, I break bones. So, I had to make the decision to find a church I could walk to and get to know people locally. And actually, I love the church up the road. It's worked well for me.
Maximiliano: Yeah.
Mitchell: And literally in 5 minutes, I'm there. I walk there. So, I miss the sort of really loud worship music
Maximiliano: Yeah.
Mitchell: which you get at a church like that. I love I go to a church sometimes on a Sunday evening in town. It's sort of 200, 300 people. A lot of students. It's fantastic.
Maximiliano: Yeah.
Mitchell: music.
Maximiliano: I I do like that. I do like that. Yeah.
Mitchell: But I love the church where I go to now. I'm very happy. I'm settled there.
Maximiliano: Mhm.
Mitchell: You know, so yeah. So, it's not mix art and church, is it? Don't know.
Maximiliano: Yeah?
Mitchell: Don't know.
Maximiliano: I don't know. You. Okay. So, um after all this, so grief, reinvention, uh and well, solo traveling and art and so on. What are your next steps?
Mitchell: Well, I've had sort of been thinking about this quite a lot recently. And I I think what I decided now, beginning of the year with the year planner, I made up a whole plan of this year. I think I want to less of these smaller paintings, which I sort of churn out, and that's fine, but I feel my heart isn't in them. I mean, no, my heart is in them. But I want to less paintings, but bigger, and going for more open call exhibitions where I actually really think up the composition. And from start to finish, it's me. You know, I can paint a fried egg. I can paint a coffee mug. Great, you know, legs. But this time, I have to really think it out, work out the color, the composition, the the shades, and whether it would interest someone.
Maximiliano: Okay.
Mitchell: And I want to do less but bigger and do that more. And again
Maximiliano: Less and bigger
Mitchell: Less and bigger, but again, of course, I live in a one-bedroom flat. I'm always conflicted with that. Less because I haven't got the space. And yes, there's this lovely church down the road now who very kindly said I can store my paintings with them. Which is great, but you know, I've got to That's what I want to do. And I think do a bit more traveling. I think I'd I'd like to do more because I mean, you know, I'm now early 70s, and I want to travel a bit more while I can, if I can. Chase the sunshine.
Maximiliano: Chase the sunshine.
Mitchell: Chase the sun and get the ideas for painting.
Maximiliano: Yeah.
Mitchell: You know, chase the ideas cuz when I'm in a nice warm climate, I come up with ideas. When it's gray and raining and chilly, it's a bit harder to think up compositions.
Maximiliano: Yeah.
Mitchell: You know.
Maximiliano: Okay.
Mitchell: Yeah. I'd say chat GPT's been quite helpful.
Maximiliano: Is it?
Mitchell: I just put an idea and I say, "Can you give me some ideas? This is what I'm thinking. Can you provide some images that I could work from?" And actually, that's been quite helpful.
Maximiliano: Yeah.
Mitchell: And titles for paintings, I have to say cuz English is not my strong point when it comes to that. You'd be good at that, you know, thinking up titles for paintings. Chat GPT is amazing.
Maximiliano: I'll help you out with the with the with the with the titles.
Mitchell: You know, yes.
Maximiliano: I love the title for this one.
Mitchell: It's
Maximiliano: It's an egg, yeah.
Mitchell: Well, what else could I call it? It is an egg, you know.
Maximiliano: Would you like uh to tell us a little bit about each painting?
Mitchell: Well, there's not a lot to say. I mean, that's a fried egg.
Maximiliano: It's an egg. It's an egg.
Mitchell: But I did like the color. I do like colors. I learned years ago about the color wheel, which is complementary colors. So, it's red and green, purple and yellow, blue and orange. And that's nature's way the colors always work.
Maximiliano: Yeah.
Mitchell: So, every painting I do will have that element.
Maximiliano: Okay.
Mitchell: But then with this one, also, I think red and pink can work. And I just thought like So, I should have done, say, a green cup cuz red and green but I thought I fancy doing pink and actually I think that works better.
Maximiliano: Yeah.
Mitchell: And the legs, what did I think of the legs? I see you've got your red and green there.
Maximiliano: Red and green, yeah.
Mitchell: Yes. I have to say my daughter's a very good model for the legs. She gets fed up being asked but I do take lots of pictures of her legs.
Maximiliano: So this is called Step Aside, Darling.
Mitchell: Well, I thought it was quite a positive Oops, I've just hit the microphone. It's quite a positive, she's striding forward, Step Aside.
Maximiliano: Yeah.
Mitchell: This is about me. I do like that one.
Maximiliano: What about that one? How do you call
Mitchell: I just called it a coffee mug. What did I call it?
Maximiliano: Coffee mug?
Mitchell: No, I did I think I did ask what this one was called.
Maximiliano: You're very straightforward.
Mitchell: I have to say this one now, um Disposable warmth. Because it is disposable warmth.
Maximiliano: Ooh, that is that's actually I I actually quite like that.
Mitchell: I have to say that was chat GPT.
Maximiliano: Disposable warmth.
Mitchell: I'm afraid it was but you know.
Maximiliano: Oh my days.
Mitchell: But I quite like that. I quite like that.
Maximiliano: Yeah.
Mitchell: Because I just couldn't think. It's a It's a mug of coffee, what can I think of a title for that? Whereas the bigger works, whereas the swimming pool and things, I do tend to think those titles up myself cuz I've got a definite idea in my head about women being on their own, you know. And with the better weather coming here now in England, I want to do some more swimming pool paintings.
Maximiliano: Yeah.
Mitchell: You know.
Maximiliano: Yeah.
Mitchell: You know, it's pointless doing them in the winter here cuz no one's going to want to buy a swimming pool in winter.
Maximiliano: I got a last question. This one is a personal one though.
Mitchell: Oh, no.
Maximiliano: Well, what do you mean? Oh, whoa, whoa, whoa.
Mitchell: Okay.
Maximiliano: No, but it's it's about uh marriage and uh separation. So, how do you deal with that? How do you deal with uh being separated or how how do you call it? I forgot.
Mitchell: Divorce?
Maximiliano: Divorce.
Mitchell: Divorce.
Maximiliano: How do you deal with divorce when once you had this whole life with somebody for many years.
Mitchell: I I don't want to say too much because obviously it affects my children. So, I'm not going to sort of talk personally about that. I think it's very hard. And I would always say if you can not get divorced, don't do it. And obviously God doesn't want us to get divorced. Uh but sometimes that just happens. Um and it is hard, but I think it made me stronger. Definitely. Definitely made me stronger. Definitely. I think it was hard. Anyway, let's not go personal. Uh the second one was divorce was easier because we didn't have children. So, it it was more I did it myself like the divorce papers. It was still hard though. But again, I think it made me stronger. But I think it does have an impact on the whole family. So, I would always caution against divorce. If you can somehow make it work, and I think if my faith had been stronger, I would have tried harder to see if there was a way through with both marriages to try and make it work.
Maximiliano: You reckon?
Mitchell: Because I think you can get through. I've just got friends who've had really difficult periods in their marriage, but they've managed to get through it and they've now got old age together and I do envy that. They've got through it. They've got the companionship now. And I if I'm honest, I do envy that. But at the time, I just I couldn't do it. So, that that would be my take on that. Try not to get divorced, but sometimes it just you just have to
Maximiliano: Yeah.
Mitchell: for whatever reasons, you know.
Maximiliano: So, if you can, you shouldn't, but if
Mitchell: Yeah, if you have to Yes, and I said I don't want to say anymore because of you know, it's more personal, but that's the sort of vague take I would give and it's definitely definitely made me stronger because I had to get stronger. I had no choice, you know. Financially, I really worried. You know, I can remember having going to see a solicitor for one of the the divorce and this woman, she charged me a lot of money for one interview and three letters. And her first name was Hyacinth. I remember that.
Maximiliano: I remember that.
Mitchell: Yes, I remember that. And at the end she said to me, "Mish, I see your future and it's very dreary." Never forgotten that.
Maximiliano: Dreary?
Mitchell: Dreary.
Maximiliano: Dreary. What's
Mitchell: Dismal.
Maximiliano: Dismal.
Mitchell: Basically, you've got to give up the art degree, you've got to go and work and you just, you know, the art is gone. I always remember that actually made me think, "Actually, no." It's not going to be dismal. I'm not going to have that. So, in a way she did me a favor by saying that, although I was really cross at the time. "Your life's going to be dreary." I thought, "No, it's not going to be." And I think I'm still here. And that must have been years ago.
Maximiliano: I love when people tell you that kind of stuff.
Mitchell: And again, and again you can go either way. You can go into real depression about that and self-pity. Which I probably did initially. Or you can say, "Actually, no. I'm not going to have that."
Maximiliano: I'm terribly competitive.
Mitchell: Oh, you see, I'm not.
Maximiliano: When somebody tells me that, I'm like, "Are you serious?" "You will see." Like, I'm
Mitchell: Yeah.
Maximiliano: I'm terrible at that. Like, I'm I'm even, I would say, a little bit vengeful. And I won't say it and I won't, like, you know,
Mitchell: Yeah.
Maximiliano: but I'll go for it and I'll remind it I I've had a note, for example, for like 5 years. Somebody who said
Mitchell: Oh, somebody said, "Yeah, I see."
Maximiliano: Said like, "Oh, no, you won't be able to, like, what is it? Like, get a degree or whatever." "Oh, you should be you should be doing this." I haven't got a degree yet.
Mitchell: No, but you will.
Maximiliano: But I will.
Mitchell: You will. You'll probably have two degrees. You'll have two degrees.
Maximiliano: I'll have 15.
Mitchell: Yes. Yes. I don't think I was like that. I've got better as I got older.
Maximiliano: Yeah?
Mitchell: And I think it was the Beatles, somebody said about the Beatles once, "Oh, they're never going to be any success. They're rubbish." or something like that.
Maximiliano: Yeah.
Mitchell: Like, you know,
Maximiliano: Shut up.
Mitchell: You know, exactly. You know, so But I've definitely got better at that, so, yeah. But you, yeah, do it. Be fierce.
Maximiliano: The pessimist gets to be right 99% of the time. And the optimist 100% of the time.
Mitchell: That's a good one. I didn't know that.
Maximiliano: Because
Mitchell: I like that. Yes, I'm an optimist, definitely an optimist.
Maximiliano: Yeah.
Mitchell: No, I like that.
Maximiliano: You got to be.
Mitchell: You have to be. Especially in the art world when you're creative. You know, all three of us here are creative, but you've just got to be an optimist cuz it can really drag you down otherwise. So, yeah.
Maximiliano: Mish. I got it right, yeah?
Mitchell: You got it right. Thank you, Mish. Well, somebody's just trying to walk by the door and they just stopped.
Maximiliano: Oh.
Mitchell: That woman.
Maximiliano: Yeah, that's probably my sister.
Mitchell: Oh, I see. No wonder she paused.
Maximiliano: Yeah.
Mitchell: Yeah. Thank you.
Maximiliano: Thank you very much for being in the podcast.
Mitchell: My pleasure.
Maximiliano: Uh, really, really nice to having you here. I think you're the type of person that I would like to have a cup of tea with and I tell you all my my problems and like
Mitchell: Feel free.
Maximiliano: Don't worry, I won't bother the audience. Um but thank you very much for being in this podcast. Really appreciate you. Thank you very much for being part of the series as well.
Mitchell: Thank you both as well. Thank you.
Maximiliano: Yeah, no worries.
Mitchell: Cheers.
Maximiliano: For everybody in the audience, thank you very much for listening once again and see you next week.
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