Joaquin Fabres: Full Podcast Transcript

Host: Maximiliano Fabres Guest: Joaquin Fabres

Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xg-kGs97Y30&t=1s Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/episode/1E2US8yuO3Q9Xqq5NTCczC?si=0c1f9f0667904508

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Maximiliano Fabres: Hello guys, welcome back to Beyond the Horizon podcast, the podcast where you expand your horizons of knowledge. Today with me is my brother, Joaquin Fabres, or also called La Jota Tattoo. He is a tattoo artist uh living in Utrecht. Utrecht? Utrecht, yes. Utrecht. Still can't pronounce it right. And he is amazing. He'll give us a little bit of an insight of what what a tattoo artist does and his experience on it. So, tell me Joaquin, what is tattooing?

Joaquin Fabres: Uh first of it all, thank you for having me here. Thank you for inviting me. For me it's a pleasure to share this passion with you and and to be here today and and explain a bit a bit of what I do and how I see the world as a tattoo artist. And uh the question was, sorry?

Maximiliano Fabres: Oh, uh yeah, no worries. What is a tattoo? Let's start Let's start at the very beginning.

Joaquin Fabres: Yeah. Uh I was thinking about it and and trying to make it easy and understandable. I think a tattoo is um ink in your skin. Inking your skin. It can come from many different reasons. Like people does it for many different reasons. But I think what makes a difference between a painting or a graffiti or like an illustration is that the tattoo it goes in your own body. And it's basically inked in your skin. That's what is a tattoo for me.

Maximiliano Fabres: Before I did uh we did this podcast and then we did the questions and so on. I was uh investigating quite a bit and one of the main things that happened is that I saw these other tattoos that were a bit of like scars uh instead of ink.

Joaquin Fabres: Yes.

Maximiliano Fabres: Would Do consider that a tattoo? Or

Joaquin Fabres: Um, no.

Maximiliano Fabres: No?

Joaquin Fabres: No. I think that's a different expression.

Maximiliano Fabres: Mhm.

Joaquin Fabres: Also, in your body. But then there's like a I guess a world of um things that we do in our bodies as piercings or haircuts or whatever you're doing to express yourself. And there you go. I don't know the English word, but it's a scarification. Scarification. Which is like doing this

Maximiliano Fabres: Scarification.

Joaquin Fabres: Exactly. Which is like doing this designs or yeah, or patterns on your body. But to me, that's not a tattooing.

Maximiliano Fabres: Okay.

Joaquin Fabres: It's a different thing. Yeah.

Maximiliano Fabres: If you could give us a little bit of like maybe your history on how did you enter tattooing and what does it mean to you?

Joaquin Fabres: Yeah, I that's I'm I'm going to try to do a such a short one, but uh as many tattoo artists, I think most of us we were connected to the creative world since the early beginning.

Maximiliano Fabres: Mhm.

Joaquin Fabres: In my case, I always like to say that I was a in a Waldorf school, like a free school uh where creativity or where where they No. Where they were uh promoting creativity a lot. Uh from sculptures, paintings, music.

Maximiliano Fabres: Mhm.

Joaquin Fabres: I think that's where my artistic journey starts. Plus, my mom she studied uh fine arts in Paris.

Maximiliano Fabres: Oh, damn.

Joaquin Fabres: yeah. So, I uh grew up with this story of my mom uh studying fine arts there. So, she showed us uh art as something really cool. So, I really I always remember being in a car, my mom was driving. Me and my siblings were in the car as well. And she was like showing us the graffitis and the murals on on the streets

Maximiliano Fabres: Mhm.

Joaquin Fabres: as something really cool. I remember her like telling me, "Look, Paco. Look how cool that graffiti is." And I was like looking at them as something really really cool. So, she definitely show us the art world as something really interesting. So, then my mom's um way of showing this or my mom's influence uh the free school pretty art or creative based.

Maximiliano Fabres: Mhm.

Joaquin Fabres: Then when I was like uh 14 or 15, I started painting graffiti. And then I uh when I finished uh high school I studied the theater.

Maximiliano Fabres: Yeah. Mhm.

Joaquin Fabres: And so it was pretty much like continuing this creative creative uh creative

Maximiliano Fabres: Uh path?

Joaquin Fabres: Yeah. So, then what I learned in theater or maybe later on I realized this is that in in art you have pretty much the same resources. Which is a com- composition resources. Either in architecture, painting theater, whatever.

Maximiliano Fabres: Mhm.

Joaquin Fabres: Uh you want to tell a story and the resources are pretty much the same as symmetric isometric

Maximiliano Fabres: Mhm.

Joaquin Fabres: rhythm uh order, disorder visual weight. All those stuff they are in all the different fields, right? Like we can talk about harmony in music in an image or abstraction or something which is figurative. So, I think studying theater helped me to realize that we have the same resources. And also give me a strong base, I would say.

Maximiliano Fabres: Mhm.

Joaquin Fabres: After doing theater, I was a bit lost on what what I wanted to do. I wanted to go to to study fine arts to the US.

Maximiliano Fabres: Mhm.

Joaquin Fabres: Which it was quite hard. I didn't succeed in that.

Maximiliano Fabres: No.

Joaquin Fabres: So, I was like, "Okay, I need to do something else."

Maximiliano Fabres: Let me guess.

Joaquin Fabres: And then I was like so in love with theater, but I really want to do something else with it. So, I end up studying stage design.

Maximiliano Fabres: Mhm.

Joaquin Fabres: So, I started doing Yeah, stage design and then

Maximiliano Fabres: Stage design.

Joaquin Fabres: Yeah, which is Stage design is like um designing um spaces

Maximiliano Fabres: Mhm.

Joaquin Fabres: for let's say entertainment.

Maximiliano Fabres: Oh, oh, okay. Okay. Yeah. Yeah.

Joaquin Fabres: case, plays, theater, or concerts, or whatever. Um and and there I really wanted to do this um immersive experiences.

Maximiliano Fabres: Yeah. Yeah.

Joaquin Fabres: Which is this like a kind of like um performance

Maximiliano Fabres: Mhm.

Joaquin Fabres: where you um program lights and music and this like a whole artwork which is like within a room. So, then you are you have this whole experience within this uh what can we say? Performance.

Maximiliano Fabres: Okay.

Joaquin Fabres: But then when I was studying design, one of my friends of my group of friends, he sent a a WhatsApp saying that his touch artist uh was searching for an apprentice. Was searching for a manager.

Maximiliano Fabres: Damn, right.

Joaquin Fabres: No, no, you're getting it. You're getting it.

Maximiliano Fabres: Oh, okay. For for a manager. Okay. Okay. Okay.

Joaquin Fabres: So, eh while I was studying design, one of my friends of my best group of friends, he sent us a WhatsApp eh saying that his tattoo artist was searching for a manager. And the hook to get the job it was that eh the manager eh it could be it could eh learn how to tattoo. So, then all my friends of that group of friends eh kind of like eh start telling me, "Why don't you should do this? You might be good at it."

Maximiliano Fabres: Mhm.

Joaquin Fabres: Because I was the artsy friend of that group of friends.

Maximiliano Fabres: Ah, okay. Okay. Okay. Okay.

Joaquin Fabres: And in that moment I wasn't paying graffiti anymore. I wasn't doing anything creative rather than the uni things.

Maximiliano Fabres: Work. Yeah, that was it.

Joaquin Fabres: Yeah. So, I was like, "Why not? Right? Like, let's give it a I wanted to give it a try." And and then I and then I can I we will see if if it works to me.

Maximiliano Fabres: Mhm.

Joaquin Fabres: And then that's how I met the Fran, which is it was my mentor. Um I became friend of him like since the first time. And I think

Maximiliano Fabres: Yeah, and I I think that's why I stay with him. And nowadays, looking back, I am so grateful because having a mentor is not something that easy to have. And he was like super open to to teach me everything he he knew.

Maximiliano Fabres: Mhm.

Joaquin Fabres: Eh and that's how I start tattooing. Long story short.

Maximiliano Fabres: Long story short.

Joaquin Fabres: Un poco larga, sí.

Maximiliano Fabres: No, no, that's all good. All good. All good. So, um and made you actually jump from like I see I see this like is everything heading towards tattooing?

Maximiliano Fabres: Mhm.

Joaquin Fabres: But I think it it's still a big leap from, you know, something outside of you being either graffitis or being uh theater or design is is always outside of you.

Maximiliano Fabres: Mhm.

Joaquin Fabres: But tattooing is very, very personal. So, like what made you say like, "Ooh, I want to do this for an actual living?"

Maximiliano Fabres: Yeah.

Joaquin Fabres: Like this is the the thing

Maximiliano Fabres: Yeah, I think it went kind of naturally while while I was uh painting graffiti. I started working as a muralist because I want I need to make money to to paint more graffiti, right? Like to buy material. It's it's quite expensive, so you really want to to invest some money on it. So, I tried to sell murals. It was really hard. Um you mostly sell murals to bars, to restaurants. They want to have some murals

Joaquin Fabres: uh in their the in their shops.

Maximiliano Fabres: Yeah, we actually interviewed a muralist, a very successful muralist

Joaquin Fabres: Oh, nice.

Maximiliano Fabres: a whole tour in Asia.

Joaquin Fabres: Oh, nice.

Maximiliano Fabres: Uh chapter eight, I think,

Joaquin Fabres: Oh, nice.

Maximiliano Fabres: Yeah, it's kind of

Joaquin Fabres: You should watch that one.

Maximiliano Fabres: Yeah.

Joaquin Fabres: Uh but then it's it's really hard to sell uh murals.

Maximiliano Fabres: Mhm.

Joaquin Fabres: They don't pay really well. Pay, sorry. They don't pay really well. It's a lot of work because there's a lot of square meters, so you invest a lot of time doing them. And for me it was a bit hard doing these murals for people that were asking me specific things, right? It kind of killed my vibe.

Maximiliano Fabres: Oh, I see.

Joaquin Fabres: Because in graffiti you are so free actually. Eh while you're doing graffiti, you know, like 90% of the people they don't understand it. So the expectations of doing something that people is going to like it is pretty much zero. So you're so free because

Maximiliano Fabres: Yeah.

Joaquin Fabres: even though you do your best work people is not going to like it. Which is amazing because then you are so free to it. So there's not too much expectations rather than doing something that is cool for you.

Maximiliano Fabres: Yeah.

Joaquin Fabres: So working with clients with muralism it wasn't my thing. It was really hard and also hard to sell. But when I started tattooing it was a time in Chile where tat tattoos were quite hype.

Maximiliano Fabres: Yeah, they were they were quite hype.

Joaquin Fabres: So I remember when I started I started with my Instagram profile immediately. And I was like, okay, I need to practice this. I need uh to make tattoos. I'm going to make them for free. So who is going to who want who want to to do that, right?

Maximiliano Fabres: Who just wants to

Joaquin Fabres: Yeah, and there was

Maximiliano Fabres: to be the first one?

Joaquin Fabres: Yeah, and there actually was a lot of people.

Maximiliano Fabres: Really?

Joaquin Fabres: Yeah, yeah, yeah, a lot of people because it's like it's like a free tattoo. I know Joaquin can make it like he can draw, right? He can make some some cool graffiti. So maybe he's going to make like decent tattoos and they're for free. So most of them at the beginning are are close friends also.

Maximiliano Fabres: Yeah, of course. Yeah. And they know well they know that you had this whole career within arts.

Joaquin Fabres: Yeah.

Maximiliano Fabres: I would I would trust I would trust that like the career at least.

Joaquin Fabres: But you

Maximiliano Fabres: Yeah, but but they know you're new. So the expectations are not that high but but in that way it was quite easy to start. And yeah, and I was like uh I like I have been told you I should start with like a brand, let's say in in Instagram and that helps a lot. Um but I decided that I wanted to do this as a profession because yes, in the uh financial way, let's say. I realized from the really early beginning that okay, people want to get tattooed and people is willing to pay.

Maximiliano Fabres: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Joaquin Fabres: And there is uh and it's a way to express myself or to explore or experiment my own creativity as I was doing with yeah, everything before that, let's say. But then I had the support of the people, right? It it it was really nice because like okay, now people is willing to pay for me to me uh to explore and to develop my own creative career.

Maximiliano Fabres: Yeah.

Joaquin Fabres: was pretty clear to me. Okay, this is it. But then I was still at uni. It was a really really nice uh side job as a student because I was doing my my bookings. So I could manage to do, let's say, two tattoos a week uh when I had the time to do it. Um it was really really nice. But then I saw my colleagues or people around me becoming better and better and better and I really wanted to become better, but I couldn't because I was still at uni.

Maximiliano Fabres: Yeah.

Joaquin Fabres: So when I finished uni, for me was really clear and I'm I feel like I was really lucky to be I mean to to know really deep in my like deep down that I wanted to do this. This This what I like what I wanted to do the most like to become a better touch artist. And then the rest it was it was like just naturally. So I think it would that that's why I decided to to become a touch artist. And that happened like almost 9 years ago.

Maximiliano Fabres: That's that's that's an impressive story I got to say. Just like all focused in arts and purely arts. It's not something that you see normally. At least in the tattoo industry.

Joaquin Fabres: I I mean I would say that being honest is it was both things. Like

Maximiliano Fabres: Yeah.

Joaquin Fabres: Yeah because I tried to do it the with with graffiti with murals before. It wasn't well paid. It was hard to get clients. So because I knew I need to make a living out of my passion.

Maximiliano Fabres: Right.

Joaquin Fabres: It has been like that consciousness of like you need to make money to what survive and to have a good life so for me it was like okay I want to do I want to develop my passion. But in some way I need to figure out how to make money out of it. And tattoo was the way. So it was passion of course. But also I mean doing what I wanted to do. Plus seeing a chance to make money out of it.

Maximiliano Fabres: Yeah it's so nice.

Joaquin Fabres: Yeah.

Maximiliano Fabres: Yeah. Well and now now that you do do you think anything changed? Or when when did you start making actual money? From the from from the very beginning? Well you did say you did mention that. Yeah.

Joaquin Fabres: Yeah yeah.

Maximiliano Fabres: Of course. It

Joaquin Fabres: The hype helped.

Maximiliano Fabres: How how's like while you're growing your Actually, this is a good one. Maybe I'm going to jump forward too much, but um when I came to the Netherlands

Joaquin Fabres: Mhm.

Maximiliano Fabres: I realized that the clients here were really into giving you a lot of freedom. Like you are the artist.

Joaquin Fabres: Really?

Maximiliano Fabres: Yeah, like you you It's not that you can do whatever you want because my style is really like my client ideas and stories and whatever they want to honor or or to get. Eh so I work always with their ideas, but always in my style, right?

Joaquin Fabres: Mhm.

Maximiliano Fabres: So they are like, "Okay, this is my idea. Do your magic, right?" So they are they

Joaquin Fabres: Oh, that has to be so nice as a as an artist.

Maximiliano Fabres: At the beginning it was like, "Wow, I can I can't believe this." Like this is what I have been dreaming since forever, right? Like actually now that we are talking about this like what I didn't like it from muralism like people like telling me you need to be like this this this.

Joaquin Fabres: Mhm.

Maximiliano Fabres: It's like, "Okay, this is here's idea. Do your magic." And they they give me that freedom. So then I was like, "Okay, this is the Dutch eh crowd or the Dutch people

Joaquin Fabres: Mhm.

Maximiliano Fabres: let's say northern European people highly educated that appreciate art more than South Americans or in Chileans

Joaquin Fabres: Mhm.

Maximiliano Fabres: uh giving me that freedom. So then I realized later when I came back to Chile because I go back to Chile every year eh I think the last three or four three years eh the same thing start happen to me there. So the now I have Chilean clients.

Joaquin Fabres: Really?

Maximiliano Fabres: come me and they say like same like do your magic, you're the artist. So then I realize

Joaquin Fabres: Mhm.

Maximiliano Fabres: that you need to kind of like earn that position. Like people trust you out of like being like seen cuz consistent work.

Joaquin Fabres: Consistent great work.

Maximiliano Fabres: Yeah. So that you have a nice style and they I mean my clients come to me most of the time they have the idea from pretty long time ago.

Joaquin Fabres: Mhm.

Maximiliano Fabres: They do a research and they found me and they're like okay, this is the artist. So if you're choosing an artist you want to give him freedom to do their art, right?

Joaquin Fabres: Yeah. Now I would not at least I would definitely.

Maximiliano Fabres: Yeah. So then I figured out it wasn't necessary a cultural thing. It was more like you need to earn that place. So there's a lot of artists that they're like complaining about like oh no, I'm doing this tattoos like the ideas, whatever. And I consciously tell to myself like there's no bad ideas. You need to take the idea of your client and it's on you

Joaquin Fabres: Mhm.

Maximiliano Fabres: to make something exciting and challenging to you that you are going to like working on on it.

Joaquin Fabres: Yeah. I guess you're very open in comparison to other tattoo tattoo artists then.

Maximiliano Fabres: I guess so because I work based on my clients ideas. So I need to be open. But at the same time that it's something that I like because I don't see myself as a painter for example. They they have this strong message they want to tell the world and they're in their atelier for example like for hours alone working on their own stuff. To me my source of inspiration are my client stories. And that's so cool because they come with different ones.

Maximiliano Fabres: Yeah.

Joaquin Fabres: You always meet new people. Most of them are quite deep in their emotions and feelings because they are like into intro- introspection.

Maximiliano Fabres: Mhm.

Joaquin Fabres: Like thinking what they wanted to to have. So they come with really cool ideas. So it's like imagine having like an endless source of ideas. People won't telling you what they want to get. And my work is to translate that to a beautiful composition.

Maximiliano Fabres: Mhm. That that sounds wonderful. And you did uh like say Well, you basically introduced what you represent as an artist.

Joaquin Fabres: Mhm.

Maximiliano Fabres: Could you give us maybe a like a full scope of what differentiates you from other tattoo artists? Or what are you trying to do in the industry?

Joaquin Fabres: Uh I think Okay, there's like many different styles nowadays, right? Like Uh I guess as as music you have like different styles that are really easy to recognize. Of course I am part of like a style.

Maximiliano Fabres: Yeah.

Joaquin Fabres: Which is called micro-realism and fine line.

Maximiliano Fabres: Mhm.

Joaquin Fabres: Um so that makes me different like different to all the other styles, right? So that's the first thing I would say. But then nowadays that there's a lot of amazing artists

Maximiliano Fabres: Mhm.

Joaquin Fabres: they are like doing really beautiful tattoos tech- technique-wise and and everything. Now you need to build this same brand identity. Like who you are, right? That's what kind of like make you stand out uh from the rest. Um and in that way I think is pretty much what we were talking about, right? Like how passion and in love I am from my clients' ideas, my love of like sharing with people. I like to meet new people every day. I I get energy out of like people, right? Like I have I know some people they they're they're social battery is really low.

Maximiliano Fabres: Yeah.

Joaquin Fabres: Uh and they get tired tired out of it. I'm like the opposite, like yeah.

Maximiliano Fabres: I I struggle to be alone too much.

Joaquin Fabres: Really?

Maximiliano Fabres: Yeah. And I really like to be with people, and I love to meet new people. It's quite easy to me.

Joaquin Fabres: Mhm.

Maximiliano Fabres: So, I think I have this um um gift or skill to make people feel uh comfortable.

Joaquin Fabres: You do have that. You Yeah, you do have that superpower.

Maximiliano Fabres: Yeah.

Joaquin Fabres: I don't know how you do it though. It's You're very calming for sure.

Maximiliano Fabres: Yeah, I mean, I don't see myself as calm, but people tell tell me that a lot, and and I I easily end up talking about really deep deep things,

Joaquin Fabres: Mhm.

Maximiliano Fabres: and I open up myself a lot with my clients. So, it's not like they're just telling me what they're going through. I'm also telling what I'm going through, and we share experiences, and I I learn a lot from them.

Joaquin Fabres: That's a lot. Really?

Maximiliano Fabres: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, of course.

Joaquin Fabres: days. Okay.

Maximiliano Fabres: Because I'm I'm really into ask whatever I wanted to know from them.

Joaquin Fabres: Mhm.

Maximiliano Fabres: I think we're all trying to figure out, so we're just like I don't know, like learning from each other.

Joaquin Fabres: Mhm.

Maximiliano Fabres: And I know my clients are really waiting for this day to get this tattoo. I know they're really in a vulnerable position. They wanted to bring a nice vibe to to the day to this their session. And I think at least my clients they really want to connect with their artist. So, that give me an advantage in a way to connect with them because they already come like quite open.

Joaquin Fabres: Yeah.

Maximiliano Fabres: And and that plus me being really into asking questions and being interested on what like who they are, what they do. And and sometimes they're like going through the same uh problems that I'm going through and then we just share about it. And I learn so much from them. So, I think that's what it makes me different. I think. Also doing great tattoos, I think that's the base the base, right? Like

Joaquin Fabres: Yeah.

Maximiliano Fabres: You need to be a great tattoo artist nowadays. That's on already like a standard thing.

Joaquin Fabres: Mhm.

Maximiliano Fabres: So, you need to be great tattooing, great doing designs, and also yeah, giving your clients the best experience they can have.

Joaquin Fabres: Mhm. I got to say something that really impressed me, uh I would say grow growing up because well, you are my brother, so um growing up and also well, seeing you start with tattoos and then like every now and again looking at your Instagram page, I was like, "Oh my god." is the amount of dedication that you had towards the quality of your tattoos. And the amount of times that you asked me uh oh did it did it um like when when you did my tattoo, the amount of times like even a year or 2 years after, you did ask me like oh and how were the lines after? And I was like okay, I'm not even thinking about the lines. Your obsessiveness towards the quality of your tattoos was something that was incredibly remarkable. At least um when I think about um tattoo artists in Chile at least that I knew. I like I don't know the industry that that well, but It sorry?

Maximiliano Fabres: I'm also not into the industry that much.

Joaquin Fabres: But yeah, well that that impressed me a lot. So yeah.

Maximiliano Fabres: The idea of like improving, you mean? The passion about it.

Joaquin Fabres: The improvement and being so focused on it.

Maximiliano Fabres: Mhm.

Joaquin Fabres: Like you are only interested in quality.

Maximiliano Fabres: Ooh, that's

Joaquin Fabres: and developing your skills and so on.

Maximiliano Fabres: Yeah, I can I can recognize that on myself of course and and but we always want more and and you always feel that the one next to you is like pushing harder, right?

Joaquin Fabres: Ooh, yeah.

Maximiliano Fabres: And at some point you also need to know how much you are willing to sacrifice to achieve those goals. I'm lucky because I'm passionate about it and and not only with the twins since since I remember I if I'm in a room I want to be one of the best ones there, right? Like I want to be pushing the limits there and and not competing in a bad way, but like oh like you're doing something cool and and I want to be as cool as you are, you know? So

Joaquin Fabres: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that drive that drive.

Maximiliano Fabres: Exactly. So I'm now I can see like every three three years I move from one ship to another because I kind of like reach my comfort zone and need to move up to a place that I'm not the best one. And and I can I can recognize that feeling that I'm like, oh, I I really need to do my best because I don't want to be the worst here. I don't want to be and like, yeah. But uh yeah, I I I it it's kind of like a natural thing uh to me uh wanting to be good. I I I want to I want to be as good as I can. I want to I want my people to be proud of me, actually.

Joaquin Fabres: Your people?

Maximiliano Fabres: I mean, my family, my friends, and and myself as well. Sometimes clients or yeah, people around will tell you like, oh, you're you're you're so good or this tattoo looks so good and and I'm like if I don't feel it, I just don't feel it, you know?

Joaquin Fabres: Really?

Maximiliano Fabres: Yeah, yeah.

Joaquin Fabres: Self-criticism have to

Maximiliano Fabres: And and you the other side, sometimes you are like I'm like, oh, I know this tattoo looks good to me. No no matter what people's going to think about it. I know for myself it's it's I'm I'm happy with it, you know? That's kind of like show me that at the end um what people thinks around you can affect you, but but at the end you know you know what what you want to achieve.

Joaquin Fabres: Mhm.

Maximiliano Fabres: Um it's hard nowadays because the standards of the industries they're quite high. So you it's easy to fall into this hole of comparing yourself with others. I think many artists are in in that process nowadays. And it's hard because the only way's to find your own way.

Joaquin Fabres: Right.

Maximiliano Fabres: It's not like a recipe to be a successful artist.

Joaquin Fabres: Yeah.

Maximiliano Fabres: You need to do it in your own way.

Joaquin Fabres: Well, tell me, what is your process like and how do you go about it?

Maximiliano Fabres: Yeah. So, my process start when my clients uh reach me. They they do a research first on what uh tattoo artists they want to get tattoo from.

Joaquin Fabres: Mhm.

Maximiliano Fabres: Uh a lot of times they tell me like, "Oh, I I want to get a tattoo and I saw your profile, your portfolio, and I knew you were the artist I wanted to get a tattoo." Um so, then start from Yeah, from there. So, they reach me. Uh then they can fill the form um linking my bio. And that's uh when they tell me a bit about what they wanted to do as as their ideas, their stories, uh where in the body, and which size. So, after reading read their request, I'm going to write them back as soon as possible telling what I think about the idea, what I think about the placement, the size, but quite rough. Uh and I and then we manage to book an appointment first. Uh once it's done, um I might ask them an online meeting to go deeper into their ideas if there's something that is not clear to me. I just wanted to know better what what they what they wanted to get. And I always uh ask them references. I try to get reference from my work. I mean, I ask them to take reference of what they like about what they're seeing in my portfolios and what they don't like. That's kind of like give me some guidance.

Joaquin Fabres: Okay.

Maximiliano Fabres: Um and then because I know already they choose me, know what they like, what they don't like, and their story. Um that's when I'm ready to start designing. And my process in like designing is really out of like trying, right? Sometimes um from their stories I can start like visualizing some things and pretty randomly, right? Like I'm like in the shower or like riding my bike or whatever I'm doing, there's some ideas like come to me and I'm like, oh, this is it might work for for this design. Uh sometimes it's really out of like just playing. Uh Before I start like with the design, I do some research on images related to the story, right? So, things that can represent what they wanted to represent. Sometimes they're really clear and they're like, okay, I want a lion, let's say, or they're like, I want to represent chaos or harmony. So, that's a bit harder because there's so many ways to to do it.

Joaquin Fabres: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Maximiliano Fabres: I just try to I go through internet like many different resources actually, sometimes book or web page or whatever, even AI sometimes.

Joaquin Fabres: Really?

Maximiliano Fabres: Yeah.

Joaquin Fabres: Oh my day Oh damn, okay, we we got to talk about that in the in the third one. But yeah.

Maximiliano Fabres: It really varies like the source of the images that I'm working with, but so then I download them. I have kind of like this collection of images that I think they might work for this idea. And then I need to um select them, which is already hard because you have all these like hundreds of images, which one express the best the better the idea of my clients, plus what inspires me and excites me to make a tattoo or design out of it. When I select them, I just start playing with them, like putting in different position, cutting, adding some stuff, drawing, deleting. And it's a process of like just trying. Um it's out of my taste, like gut feeling, let's say. Uh it's easier when you when you see me doing this.

Joaquin Fabres: Mhm.

Maximiliano Fabres: You can add a dot or just delete that dot and it change how the image looks like.

Joaquin Fabres: Mhm.

Maximiliano Fabres: Definitely.

Joaquin Fabres: In some moment it just feels right. It just feel appealing and it feels good. And you can you can just you can just feel it. Um but there I like to try two or three different proposals for my clients. I never send designs in advance before their their their session.

Joaquin Fabres: Really?

Maximiliano Fabres: So my clients don't know what I'm going to bring to them till the day of the session.

Joaquin Fabres: For them.

Maximiliano Fabres: And that day I sit next to them and I show them the two or three proposals. Sometimes they're more finished, sometimes they're more like rough sketches from a collage sketch. Um and with them I finish the design. So we end up doing the design together. Â That's the best way because

Joaquin Fabres: Oh, okay.

Maximiliano Fabres: communication is better, is faster. Otherwise it would be like emails like hundreds of emails going back like "Oh, no, I like this one better, but this So when I have them next to me with the iPad it's just super easy to

Joaquin Fabres: Add or

Maximiliano Fabres: Yeah, or

Joaquin Fabres: subtract, I guess.

Maximiliano Fabres: Exactly.

Joaquin Fabres: Get rid of stuff and stuff.

Maximiliano Fabres: Exactly. Um I always tell my clients I understand that sometimes it can be uh stressful to don't know or to don't see the design beforehand.

Joaquin Fabres: Yeah, that's that's that's what I'm getting at.

Maximiliano Fabres: I I know. But um I tell them there's no rush on this.

Joaquin Fabres: Mhm.

Maximiliano Fabres: Uh if we need to because it that part, designing with my clients, it take me most of the time 2 hours. Average, right?

Joaquin Fabres: Really?

Maximiliano Fabres: Yeah, yeah. Sometimes it can be more, sometime less. Depends on how creativity works and how I yeah. How clear and direct my clients are also. But people here is quite quite direct. So it takes like around 2 hours, but I always let them know like if it takes more than 3 hours uh we can just go and work deeper on it. If there is more like than 4 hours, we should make a a break.

Joaquin Fabres: Another another appointment, yeah.

Maximiliano Fabres: Either I take homework and then I need to finish later or we might consider I might not be the artist. But

Joaquin Fabres: Really?

Maximiliano Fabres: More than 4 hours or saying oh sorry you're not the artist.

Joaquin Fabres: Yeah, yeah.

Maximiliano Fabres: Which one?

Joaquin Fabres: Sorry you're not the artist. And it's more like they it's more than they'll telling to me, I would say like okay, we have been working on this because it's like those 2 hours with my clients. But maybe for me 2 or 3 days before working on it.

Maximiliano Fabres: Yeah.

Joaquin Fabres: Right? Like from the beginning reading, searching for images and doing the designs, two or three proposals, take me some time, right? So that's why I think it doesn't take too long with them because they already like what I do, my style. This design is based on what they want, their story. And they're like seeing like two or three different proposals where they can still do some changes, right?

Maximiliano Fabres: Yeah, yeah.

Joaquin Fabres: So most of the time it works.

Maximiliano Fabres: see the basis at least, so yeah.

Joaquin Fabres: Sometimes I I show them pretty finished designs, right?

Maximiliano Fabres: Oh, okay.

Joaquin Fabres: But sometimes they're like, "Uh yeah, I'll just like to I don't know change the font of this sentence or make it lighter or darker or or just remove some stuff." Um but once we have the design done, um I make the stencil. I let them some space to move their legs a bit, to eat something because after the the stencil's done, I put the stencil on them and then we have the whole evening to make the tattoo.

Maximiliano Fabres: Okay, then you're you're if sealed.

Joaquin Fabres: Yes. And that and and most of the time this is around I start to doing this at 10:30, designing. So, I start doing around 1 12:00 or 1:00 till 6:00. So, it's like 5 or 6 hours tattooing. And

Maximiliano Fabres: That's a lot.

Joaquin Fabres: with micro realism is really into layering and

Maximiliano Fabres: Yeah.

Joaquin Fabres: doing details. It's really about being patience patient. And and sometimes it takes more than than more than one or two three sessions. Um that's how my process is uh so far.

Maximiliano Fabres: Okay. I got to say I got so many questions. Let's start at the beginning. When you're researching, what kind of research? Let's say I want a tattoo a sleeve tattoo

Joaquin Fabres: Uh-huh.

Maximiliano Fabres: and I want to uh Greek gods and uh the sea. That that is your basis. How do you go about it? Because specifically the the investigation.

Joaquin Fabres: Yeah, I would like I would start like doing questions, right? Like which which god? Like why? Tell me a bit about your story.

Maximiliano Fabres: Mhm.

Joaquin Fabres: And what do you want to get this? That that's give me an idea of like the atmosphere because uh if you tell me like whatever god." And then I'm going to start like asking you like an old man, a young one, mm, muscular. It should look like wise. I just start doing questions. And that give me a more clear idea about what you would like to get, right? So, when I have the idea a bit more clear, then I can start like searching for images, right? If you're not sure about it and then you're like, "I just want a Greek god." Let's say. And I don't mind if it is old, young, or whatever. So, that that allows me to to take whatever it makes me feel something or I think it it could look like as a cool tattoo. But my clients most of the time they they get an idea of what they want they want to represent. And with these questions it helps them to also realize what they what they really want.

Maximiliano Fabres: want, yeah.

Joaquin Fabres: So, when I have that info, then I start looking for images and I I like, of course, like the highest quality image as I can get.

Maximiliano Fabres: Okay.

Joaquin Fabres: High contrast, even though I can then adjust some contrast to have a more clear image because within tattooing you really need a high contrast tattoo to look good over time, right? If you have just gray tones, over time it's just going to look not that good, harder to recognize. But if you have like a really highly dramatic contrast, it's going to look better. More depth, more volume, just

Maximiliano Fabres: Mm.

Joaquin Fabres: cooler and better. Um And that's how I start like searching for like doing this research.

Maximiliano Fabres: I guess it has a lot to do with feeling and well, the highest quality image. I know you go through feeling and you're going for the highest quality image possible. But do you also take into consideration like the place where where it's going towards your research or is that is that afterwards?

Joaquin Fabres: I would say this afterwards. I think because if let's say the same example, I'm doing like a Greek god face, let's say. I would take not one image. I would like to take like more than one different position. Position so that it would allow me to try the different positions

Maximiliano Fabres: Mhm.

Joaquin Fabres: in the place meant by in the body placement my my client wants. So let's say for I'm here. So then I would like just start putting the images. So I'm just going to try like the four options I have. And then oh, this kind of look cool. And then so like trying like different angles and then I'm going to cut some like maybe the neck in some way and looks better and then that flows in the body better. But that comes out of like the exercise of actually designing.

Maximiliano Fabres: Okay, so that's that's later on on when you do when you mixing the collages.

Joaquin Fabres: Exactly.

Maximiliano Fabres: And then what is too many images? When do you think you stop and you feel you're ready when

Joaquin Fabres: Woof, I It's it's hard. And even harder nowadays in the world we are living where there's like hundreds and thousand and mill of millions of images everywhere. And actually now with AI it's even more endless, let's say because you can make a lot of different images, a lot of beautiful ones, and so but I'm training this aspect of being an artist to know what you like. Like seriously, like what what what you really like. So, from this 10 I mean, it happens to me and I guess to everyone nowadays, just going to the supermarket. You need to buy like a tea and it's like 10 brands, and then you're like, "Oh, which one is better?" But this one it looks good, and this one also looks good. Also oh, what what should I choose? It's hard, so many options, right? So I think it's important for you as an artist to know what you like the most. And that's the one that you you need to go with. Um so, if I I end up with 10 beautiful images then I'm trying to be honest to myself, like, "Okay, from this 10 like all of them which one are going to look best as a tat as a tattoo?" And I end up with five and then there's something that tells me, like, "Okay, this is the one you like the most." Um and I try to show the three ones I like the most to my client, and then he's going to be the one who's going to choose the one that we're going to make.

Maximiliano Fabres: I don't know if this happens to you, but it definitely happens to me where I go into Pinterest, okay? My number one app to to do collages. And I just keep adding and adding and adding and adding, like it's I spent probably 6 hours on Pinterest alone, just adding stuff. How do you decide, like, "Okay, yeah, you know what? I should stop right now, because like this all sounds cool, and like this all is great and could work with the image of the Greek god." But I think this is enough. Like, I don't know, a million images is probably not not great for me.

Joaquin Fabres: Yeah. Yeah. Having a deadline helps me a lot.

Maximiliano Fabres: Okay. Okay, so you work backwards from the deadline then?

Joaquin Fabres: Yeah, I mean, like, if I start like working 2 days before, I know that I need to choose the images. I have like maybe 1 day to do the research and choose the images. And then there's some moment that I need to stop on searching because it's endless. And then I just need to start trying. And maybe if I'm already like designing and the main object, let's say, is not good enough, then I can come back to search for a better one.

Maximiliano Fabres: Mhm.

Joaquin Fabres: But, having a deadline helps me to Okay, stop this part of the process. Let's jump into the next one. And then, yeah, because you need to um be there the day after with your client. You cannot tell them like, "Oh, I couldn't decide which image to work." Which is something that I I still kind of do because that's why I bring the three proposals. And with these three proposals I show to my clients, I try to make them different directions. I don't show them like the one too similar to the other one. So, it's like really graphic, way more minimalistic, more detail, and more, I don't know, darker contrast, higher contrast.

Maximiliano Fabres: Mhm.

Joaquin Fabres: So, then with those three, my client helps me to choose a direction. Right?

Maximiliano Fabres: Okay, so you have like different styles, so to say, that you can

Joaquin Fabres: It's not styles. I think I would say like different designs.

Maximiliano Fabres: Different designs?

Joaquin Fabres: Different designs.

Maximiliano Fabres: All right.

Joaquin Fabres: Uh with with like enough difference to take one direction or the other one. If they're too similar, then it would be confusing to my clients, too. So, I tried to make them different, but then with their help I end up with the right design. So for me it's just as for you, adding a stuff is just way easier. Going from more minimalistic thing is harder, so um less is more and you can feel when things um need to be there and what they don't need to be there.

Maximiliano Fabres: So when when when talking about the sleeve and the Greek god, what would be minimalistic and what would be like What would be like the three the three main

Joaquin Fabres: Something that I that I ask to my clients is to give me a hierarchy in the elements you want to work with because sometimes with they come with like a lot a lot of different ideas and they want to make them one story Mhm. And when you have too many, you really need to have like this um um list of uh hierarchy, right? So let's say I would take like one or two main elements because you could it would be a full sleeve, you can you have place for two main elements, so they would be more realistic, more detailed higher contrast. Then I would choose like secondary elements based on the hierarchy of my client that that you can put surrounding this this main element and telling the story and then the third level uh elements just symbols, signs, lines, geometry.

Maximiliano Fabres: Mhm.

Joaquin Fabres: Um So then yeah, it's just a out of like a number of things you put on it and and how it looks like. So let's say too many objects, too many symbols, too much geometry, it would look like way more oversaturated and overcrowded than if you have like one main, two secondary and then just like a simple geometry behind. So it really depends on my client taste, my own taste and and decisions, but

Maximiliano Fabres: And the reasoning behind

Joaquin Fabres: And the reasoning behind, and and sometimes I ask my clients how bad it would be to leave some things behind. Some some elements out because I think like 15 elements it might be too much.

Maximiliano Fabres: Okay.

Joaquin Fabres: Let's focus on one thing. And most of the time when they have like 15 elements it's because there are two elements that are speaking from the same concept, like same concept or idea. And like maybe we don't need to be too literal. We can keep like this one which is more poetic, and then the other one we can we can leave it out outside.

Maximiliano Fabres: Mhm.

Joaquin Fabres: I think that would be the difference between like overcrowded design and and minimalistic. It's way easier when you see the the examples in images, of course.

Maximiliano Fabres: Yeah, I and and I guess yeah, the the reasoning behind and like if you hear the whole story, you can actually let them know as well like A I think you're trying to get the tattoo because of this reason.

Joaquin Fabres: Mhm.

Maximiliano Fabres: Am I right? Am I wrong?

Joaquin Fabres: Yeah.

Maximiliano Fabres: And then just like get rid of other stuff that might like you just might want to add just because, you know, and it's irrelevant.

Joaquin Fabres: Yeah.

Maximiliano Fabres: Uh I think that happened to me with the the reels.

Joaquin Fabres: Uh-huh.

Maximiliano Fabres: We were trying to put like two conversations at the same time or like two questions. Uh the question and then the follow-up question, which was technically another question

Joaquin Fabres: Mhm.

Maximiliano Fabres: in one reel.

Joaquin Fabres: Mhm.

Maximiliano Fabres: And well, we noticed like okay, that's that might not be the best way of, you know, doing a short video or whatever. Is it something similar to to what's that? So like is it better to tell one thing than many or do you reckon it's okay to tell like many different things in at once as well?

Joaquin Fabres: Mhm.

Maximiliano Fabres: But there's still a limit, I don't know.

Joaquin Fabres: I think this is really out of taste, right? Like there are some um artworks that are really overcrowded, full of info, and there is another ones that are like super minimalistic. So, I think like it's out of taste, but I think to come with a with a product that it doesn't confuse your client, it's better to don't bring a hundred of references, of course. And I think that's part of your your work, of your job as an artist, right? Like you are the one that is going to take that story and translate that story to a beautiful image. And one of the steps of that task is choosing the images that might work, right? So, I think it would be a part of a part of it.

Maximiliano Fabres: Could you give me maybe the main skill or the main ability that you need to have when designing a tattoo?

Joaquin Fabres: I think there's not the right answer for that because I really don't think there's a formula or one way of doing this or one taste that is better than the other one. I like to think that is many many many ways and everyone has his own way. And what is a good design at the end, right? Right? Like it's something that it feels good to you, which can not good as appealing to me. So, I wouldn't say that there's like one way to do this, but you were asking about like one skill towards designing.

Maximiliano Fabres: Yeah, maybe.

Joaquin Fabres: Yeah, and then that's also connected to the first episode. Which is I when I realized that in art not all other not only in art but in many jobs you have or works you have resources and let's say in either painting, yeah, architecture and dance, theater you have the same in resources for make composition, right? So, let's say again like uh in rhythm, harmony contrast balance symmetry all the stuff like we have them and there's like playing with those resources till the moment you end up with something you're proud of. And you like and maybe someone is going to like it and connected with that. I think it's out of like training your taste or training yourself as someone that can end up with some something you're proud of. I think that would be the only thing. I I'm truly believe that everyone can make a great design. And there at the end if you practice and it's just out of playing, I think. Out of trying.

Maximiliano Fabres: And uh one last question on on this uh whole process. When tattooing is you never never talked about the the tattoo. What do you do there? What what are you be with? What can you dismiss it so?

Joaquin Fabres: Yeah, I mean tattooing nowadays like the part that I enjoy the most actually.

Maximiliano Fabres: Really?

Joaquin Fabres: Yeah. Yeah. It took me quite a lot of time to don't be a stress about tattooing like let's say 5-6 years.

Maximiliano Fabres: Oh my god.

Joaquin Fabres: I remember like after 6 years like oh now I'm not stressed about what I'm going to do tomorrow and how I'm going to do it. Before that I was like okay I have the design I have the idea. I'm going to make this like which ink I'm going to use which dilu- dilutions dilutions what's the the dilutions

Maximiliano Fabres: Um

Joaquin Fabres: Okay whatever so

Maximiliano Fabres: Sorry the the ink you mean?

Joaquin Fabres: See.

Maximiliano Fabres: Okay yeah just the ink all right.

Joaquin Fabres: Okay so after 5 years uh I remember thinking like oh I'm not stressed anymore on how I'm going to do this tomorrow even though I have the design it's like I was always checking which nail which like how fast the the nail the nail needs to hit how fast I need to move my hands and just rechecking every step which ink tones and and just pretty much everything like I was like really having hard times on like being a stress about like how I'm going to do this. And nowadays I reach a level uh technique wise that I'm like um uh confident with my technique. You can always be better and I'm still seeking that of course. And that's forever but uh I'm in a in a point that I know how to make good lines and good shadings and and fadings and black tones so I'm actually enjoying the tattooing part the most like it's the moment that I can um be fully focused like deeply focus.

Maximiliano Fabres: Mhm.

Joaquin Fabres: Tattooing, having fun, talking with my client, bonding with him, and and doing what I what I like to do. Uh I'm lucky that I have this uh job that I can be like in the zone for such a long time. And I really enjoy doing this. Yeah. So, tattooing nowadays like fills my comfort zone nowadays.

Maximiliano Fabres: Mhm.

Joaquin Fabres: Designing is more challenging to me nowadays.

Maximiliano Fabres: Right. Okay.

Joaquin Fabres: I think I think I I I get the scope of of of your process, I think. So, the beginning Tell me if you're wrong, please. Do you tell me.

Maximiliano Fabres: Mhm.

Joaquin Fabres: At the beginning, you're like, "Let's be as creative as possible. Let's get the idea." And let's see like all the possibilities. And then you're picking images and asking questions and like trying to like yeah, do this. Then you're trying to like blend it and establish it more where you're actually making this fusion between all the ideas that you did and like maybe cutting a lot of things that you thought might be good.

Maximiliano Fabres: Mhm.

Joaquin Fabres: Uh also with the client, you're doing that same process.

Maximiliano Fabres: Yeah.

Joaquin Fabres: And then once your once the stencil is on and you like pick the needle, you're like, "Okay, let's do it." Like laser focus.

Maximiliano Fabres: Yeah.

Joaquin Fabres: Is that Is that Is that about right?

Maximiliano Fabres: Yeah. Yeah, 100%. And that's the moment that I enjoy the most nowadays. Like just as you said, everything is there. Stencil is in my client's skin, already dry.

Joaquin Fabres: Mhm.

Maximiliano Fabres: Everything is like prepared. The music is on. My client is good and I'm like just starting like just before I start like doing it's like coffee is there just in case. Water is there as well. That's the moment that I like the most for sure, yeah.

Joaquin Fabres: Okay. I see. I see. Oh, thank you. Thank you very much for taking time to tell me about your process. I think it's It's actually so interesting cuz it's very different from at least what my process is towards doing questions and stuff stuff like that. But I think it's because it's very different works, so.

Maximiliano Fabres: Yeah. I actually I'm still like super excited about materializing ideas. This is really cool thinking while while I'm doing and I tell this to my clients like this starts from like an idea of them like my clients like maybe many years ago and then they they email they send me, I read it, it go through my own process, I think about it searching was like all the process we just talked about it and then you are there in the present actually doing this putting this idea design that you both create in the skin forever or at least for the rest of their lifetime, right? And that idea of like Yeah, that's a creative thing, right? Like creating creating things, right? And I'm still like super excited about like

Joaquin Fabres: I love that, though.

Maximiliano Fabres: Yeah. I really like it. Like oh, I tell them like oh do you see what we're doing now? Like it's becoming real and it's in your skin and it's going to be there forever. How cool is that, you know?

Joaquin Fabres: Oh, I love that. I love that. Yeah. I love to the the actual building process of of something. Not the investigation, not the like coordination, but like that when you're there.

Maximiliano Fabres: Yeah. I love that night. That's That's why I think it's the moment I like them.

Joaquin Fabres: We're going to go a little bit into the future and what it will bring to the tattoo industry. The first big question and that you did slip it in the first episodes.

Maximiliano Fabres: Mhm.

Joaquin Fabres: AI is touching every industry and for sure has to do with tattooing and it's a sign. So, tell us what How is AI actually impacting the industry?

Maximiliano Fabres: I would say that in general in the creative on the artistic using there are like pretty mixed opinions, mixed feelings. My feeling is that most of the artists don't like AI. But I have a different opinion myself. I think it's it's just a new tool that we should know and learn how to use it.

Joaquin Fabres: Mhm.

Maximiliano Fabres: But I also and and and actually I'm starting trying and learning from it. Sometimes it makes my life faster when getting the result faster and easier. But sometimes it doesn't as and it's pretty much the opposite. Prompting is not something that is as easy as you think. And actually if you make the exercise of describing an image it's not that easy. Like how the light hits how the colors are the the shot, the composition and everything. So just telling the AI doing a beautiful car or a beautiful woman is going to make something kind of beautiful. But if you have something on your mind, your own idea, and make like giving the prompt to end up with that idea as a image is something really hard to do. So, in that way, sometimes I feel that I'm going to spend less time and end up with better results, but it actually takes longer than going to Pinterest and finding the right image. But it's something that I enjoy because it's something new. You can end up with really interesting results. But in a more like a philosophical way, I feel it's just a new tool. I get a lot of comments from artists, tattooists that are my friends, that they're like really not liking AI because they said like, "Why to use AI if you can draw something yourself?" And then I feel like, "Okay, if you are an artist a tattooist that is really enjoying the the drawing process, you shouldn't skip that process using AI because that's that's the process you like the most." But in my case, uh doing digital collage, I'm going to take pictures from everywhere anyways. So, for me, there's no difference taking illustrations or photographs from books, from internet, or from AI. They are all the same to me. Because I'm going to take those images anyways, I'm going to transform them in a way to create a composition.

Joaquin Fabres: Yeah.

Maximiliano Fabres: So, I have nothing against AI. I think in many ways it can help us. But, the only thing thing I I think is like you need to invest time trying and learning how to make good questions and to make good prompts. It's not that easy as people could imagine.

Joaquin Fabres: Yeah.

Maximiliano Fabres: Yeah.

Joaquin Fabres: You know, what something that I've seen in on TikTok or whatever is mostly just taking the picture of something that you sketched roughly.

Maximiliano Fabres: Mhm.

Joaquin Fabres: And then it converts it into an image.

Maximiliano Fabres: Mhm.

Joaquin Fabres: Have you done that? Or does that work better than just describing the image?

Maximiliano Fabres: Mhm. Not not really. Sometimes using that sketch

Joaquin Fabres: Mhm.

Maximiliano Fabres: as a reference of the look

Joaquin Fabres: Mhm.

Maximiliano Fabres: or the style of the drawing.

Joaquin Fabres: I see.

Maximiliano Fabres: And then adding something on top as like a new idea or something.

Joaquin Fabres: Mhm.

Maximiliano Fabres: I also kind of like done with some images in Pinterest. Like for example, swallows. I have seen like the same swallows tattooed in people's skin many, many times. From newbie artists to the really experienced and famous ones.

Joaquin Fabres: Mhm.

Maximiliano Fabres: Just the same ones. So, you can either draw a new ones or ask AI to make like a bunch of them. And I put the like the one you like the most and

Joaquin Fabres: Mhm.

Maximiliano Fabres: make any sign out of out of it. I think at least my style the the value is on making a a composition. A collage.

Joaquin Fabres: Yeah.

Maximiliano Fabres: More than creating a a drawing from one object, let's say.

Joaquin Fabres: Mhm.

Maximiliano Fabres: And in some point with with within this collage a idea I figure out that many years ago an artist draw a perfect body human body. It happens already hundreds of years ago.

Joaquin Fabres: Yeah.

Maximiliano Fabres: If you would be able to do that drawing nowadays it would show that you have like really high skills on drawing but it's not something new, isn't it?

Joaquin Fabres: Yes. It's not not at all actually.

Maximiliano Fabres: Already happened. So why should I spend time drawing some something that someone's someone draw many years ago? I would like to take those things and and make something new out of it. And I think in different fields it it happens the same like uh in music for example industry. I never take one AI drawing or photograph or whatever and putting that as a tattoo like the same as it is in like from the I always do something anyways.

Joaquin Fabres: Mhm.

Maximiliano Fabres: I haven't end up with an image on AI that I can just tattoo right away. I always need to do something. So still is like part of the process. And I like to think that when portrait portrait artists were doing old paintings that took them like years maybe. And then cameras appears and they were like oh we're like now you can do a portrait with like a picture like with a photograph. And nowadays a lot of portrait artists they use cameras in for their own process, right?

Joaquin Fabres: Yeah.

Maximiliano Fabres: So for me

Joaquin Fabres: another

Maximiliano Fabres: For me it's another tool that you should try at least. And not for the creative part but also for like workflow, marketing, and

Joaquin Fabres: Everything.

Maximiliano Fabres: the business side of it. It can Yeah, it can help you a lot.

Joaquin Fabres: Doing investigation, I was telling you about this before. Uh I came up with this TED Talk uh that spoke about technological tattoos

Maximiliano Fabres: Mhm.

Joaquin Fabres: that would tell you certain stuff. So, he was telling about uh tattooing like a mark in the skin

Maximiliano Fabres: Mhm.

Joaquin Fabres: for UV light.

Maximiliano Fabres: Mhm.

Joaquin Fabres: And then if you if it fades or if it appears

Maximiliano Fabres: Mhm.

Joaquin Fabres: then uh you would know that okay, that was your your dose for the day. For example, if UV light or like the radiation was too much.

Maximiliano Fabres: Okay.

Joaquin Fabres: And that you could like add different things for for different tattoos for different things.

Maximiliano Fabres: Mhm.

Joaquin Fabres: And that would give you information about either the world or how you are doing at that moment in time. He spoke about the temperature

Maximiliano Fabres: Mhm.

Joaquin Fabres: as well of of somebody's body.

Maximiliano Fabres: Yeah.

Joaquin Fabres: And stuff like that.

Maximiliano Fabres: Yeah.

Joaquin Fabres: So, how do you see that and would you implement that?

Maximiliano Fabres: Mhm, not really. I think it's it might be really cool all those kind of innovations, right? But I'm still uh stuck in the creative part of like dr- creating images actually.

Joaquin Fabres: Yeah.

Maximiliano Fabres: Like for me now tattooing is like um the body is the canva- the canvas. It brings so much joy because I'm working with people. We talked about it before.

Joaquin Fabres: Mhm.

Maximiliano Fabres: But I'm I'm doing the tattooing because I want to create the coolest image that I can make and that brings me joy and satisfactions.

Joaquin Fabres: Mhm.

Maximiliano Fabres: It's not about the necessarily in the tattooing industry innovation part of it like more scientific as you said like

Joaquin Fabres: Mhm.

Maximiliano Fabres: that you can make tattoos that helps in many other ways. It's It's not something that I'm interested. I mean, I am because I think it's Yeah, it's nice to see how far we can go with it. But I I still want to create cooler tattoos as as images.

Joaquin Fabres: Mhm.

Maximiliano Fabres: More than like a tool or like some something else.

Joaquin Fabres: Got it. Then within that as well, I uh cuz I also follow the business uh like the business side of things quite like often.

Maximiliano Fabres: Mhm.

Joaquin Fabres: I saw this machine that prints fairly well, I would say.

Maximiliano Fabres: Yeah.

Joaquin Fabres: Tattoos

Maximiliano Fabres: Mhm.

Joaquin Fabres: that are very simple, let's say.

Maximiliano Fabres: Mhm.

Joaquin Fabres: Like just lines or stuff like that.

Maximiliano Fabres: Mhm.

Joaquin Fabres: It hasn't been tested on humans, I think.

Maximiliano Fabres: Okay.

Joaquin Fabres: I'm sure it will at some point.

Maximiliano Fabres: Yeah.

Joaquin Fabres: How do you see robotics affecting the industry? Do you reckon at some point

Maximiliano Fabres: I mean, I know a project that I think is from Bang Bang, a big a big name in the tattoo industry in New York. They already built developed a robot that it makes tattoos.

Joaquin Fabres: Oh, really? Okay.

Maximiliano Fabres: They said they it makes quite good tattoos and I haven't seen like something that I'm like impressed. But we know that AI is going faster than anything else before. So, it's a thing of time like I think robots are here already, right? Like I have seen videos like in China, like these robots like dancing or doing karate. They're not as good as humans yet. But they become like really good. Um I don't know if I would like to get a tattoo if I would go with a a robot, right? Like I I wouldn't like that because tattoos, I mean, tattooing is you get like two things. product but a service provider, right? Like it's like a like a mix between an artist and a hair cut thing, you know? So, you you get a tattoo that you carry forever, but you also have this experience with someone else. It goes through his interpretation and also this moment, right? Like that we're connecting and and when we're sharing. But I think I mean, there's a market for everything, right? Like if you see the US how it works, right? Like I think if you release like a robot that make perfect tattoos I think people's going to like it. Some people's going to like it. Some people's not going to like it. But I think I think

Joaquin Fabres: You saying that it was very similar to what's Kindle and the books, the hard books.

Maximiliano Fabres: Yeah.

Joaquin Fabres: Now both markets are up.

Maximiliano Fabres: Cool.

Joaquin Fabres: So, it's it's not either or, but most readers have both.

Maximiliano Fabres: Yeah.

Joaquin Fabres: And they buy books and they buy the Kindles. I I myself, I read a lot of stuff on Kindle.

Maximiliano Fabres: Uh-huh.

Joaquin Fabres: Like mostly fun stuff or whatever. And then I buy the actual books that I want to study on on hard cover.

Maximiliano Fabres: Yeah. Yeah.

Joaquin Fabres: Maybe something like that.

Maximiliano Fabres: It It might be. Um I think what I would be asking is that what happened with when everything is going to be done by robots, like perfectly done by robots, then maybe the human handmade stuff are going to be like just super rare

Joaquin Fabres: and luxury items.

Maximiliano Fabres: and luxury items. Yeah, yeah. It It might be.

Joaquin Fabres: I saw I saw a video on that as well.

Maximiliano Fabres: Yeah. I don't know. I'm I'm if I start like thinking too much about AI and not only in my field, like not only about my work, I feel like scares me way more in like the way it is going to change like our relationships and how we interact with each other and with the world, that it's nice to talk with friends, but in my daily life, I'm not thinking about it because otherwise I would be quite depressed. So I'm trying to to live like my present, being grateful, doing the best as I can. Maybe in 10 years there's no more tattoos, I don't know. Maybe it's just robots doing tattoos. We don't know. But till then I'm just going to be doing this and trying to become better at what Yeah.

Joaquin Fabres: Yeah, I see. Then mov- moving away from all that technological advance,

Maximiliano Fabres: Mhm.

Joaquin Fabres: um where do you see the industry going as in styles and the standards? Cuz you did talk about standards briefly before.

Maximiliano Fabres: Mhm.

Joaquin Fabres: Being good is the new

Maximiliano Fabres: Like now- like nowadays, uh okay, we're in a point, in a moment that there was like a hype uh in the tattoo industry the last I guess 10 years where tattooing or tattoos became like really popular. So you I we we we saw like a increase of like tattoo artists and tattoo shows and that brings a lot of like different styles and different techniques which I think is is amazing and actually now I think people know at least this is my feeling. I know at least that everything you can make as a drawing or painting you can make it as a tattoo. So abstract, surrealism, realism, microlism and super minimalistic to like super like completely black or super fine line or pretty much everything. And but then I think now because this is the industry is more competitive and more saturated I think it becomes more like a normal industry or normal industry. So like finding authentic artists are are doing something different it's hard. Doing something different is also hard. We are really influenced by everything around us. So if you think about the music industry you have like styles and then you have like sometimes some artists are like yeah they have their basis in some styles, their roots, they're doing something a little bit different. So I think in terms of style I think you can still you you have I think you always going to have space to to create something a bit different. But this boom of like

Joaquin Fabres: Yeah.

Maximiliano Fabres: uh like a lot of different styles appearing, I think it's not as it was like the last 10 years.

Joaquin Fabres: Yeah. Yeah, I see. Yeah, cuz in the in the music industry also it well, it's fairly difficult to see like something completely different.

Maximiliano Fabres: Mhm.

Joaquin Fabres: You know, always will have a style.

Maximiliano Fabres: Yeah.

Joaquin Fabres: And well, with tattooing, I think it's more about Well, as you said, we we we're now in a point where everybody knows that you can get anything tattooed.

Maximiliano Fabres: Mhm.

Joaquin Fabres: Well, anything that can be drawn can be tattooed. That was something that, I don't know, 15 years ago, 20 years ago, wasn't a thing.

Maximiliano Fabres: Yeah.

Joaquin Fabres: You either like you had things that you could tattoo.

Maximiliano Fabres: Yeah.

Joaquin Fabres: And that was it.

Maximiliano Fabres: Yeah.

Joaquin Fabres: But yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Maximiliano Fabres: Yeah.

Joaquin Fabres: So, yeah, I'll I guess it will be like revolutionizing also the painting industry, which is quite difficult as well.

Maximiliano Fabres: Yeah. I think we were lucky to be in this golden era of the twin, I'd say, where it was hype. Everyone wants to get a tattoo, and um there was a lot of innovation in like in needles and and machines and yeah, like a lot of different things. But that helps to develop like many other styles that that I never saw before in the tattoo industry, but now there's a lot of a little bit of everything. But there's still people doing something unique. And and that's the hard part here is like trying to be as unique as you are. and not be influenced by anybody else. In balance and that's even harder to be appealing for people to have clients. But it seems like if you are authentic and then you are good enough to find your audience you should be able to make a living out of like doing your own thing.

Joaquin Fabres: Yeah.

Maximiliano Fabres: Mhm.

Joaquin Fabres: That's nice.

Maximiliano Fabres: Mhm. It's hard.

Joaquin Fabres: Yeah. I'm sure it is. I'm sure it is. One thing that I would really want to know is actually how you will develop maybe in the future. How do you train yourself on another style or in another aspect in How are you preparing for for the future so to say?

Maximiliano Fabres: Yeah, I think pretty much all my career I was like really into like day-by-day kind of like mindset.

Joaquin Fabres: Mhm.

Maximiliano Fabres: Like I want to become better and the only way is like just to practice, practice, practice and think about what you could do better, like watching your the pictures of your work and figure out where you could make a better results to get better results. But now that I'm older I'm trying to think more in like um long terms and I always try to um work not only on like designing and tattooing, but also on um your identity as an artist and the business side of it, like financially speaking and and pricing is also a big thing. um Finding your niche or position your brand uh in the way you want it to to do. What kind of clients do you want to have? And and and you need to build that. And it takes takes time. But I am I truly believe that a consistency and yeah, consistency I I think is the key. Of course, you need to make a plan. But if I look back I have been like step by step achieving those goals. And and at the really end I think I truly believe that the process it would be the the goal.

Joaquin Fabres: Yeah?

Maximiliano Fabres: Yeah. I

Joaquin Fabres: Just the process itself.

Maximiliano Fabres: I think the process, the people you meet during this process, the relationship you you you get, the the memo-

Joaquin Fabres: Mhm.

Maximiliano Fabres: because once you achieve a goal then you're already thinking the next one.

Joaquin Fabres: Mhm.

Maximiliano Fabres: I think it's nice to stop, to think about it, to celebrate a bit, and then you work for the next one. But at the at the really end okay, you want to become a better artist. You want to have succeed. What succeed does it mean for you? Is it fame? Is it money? Or whatever you wanted. And at the end of the day if you ask yourself like, "Okay, what what I would do if I would have the fame and the the money that I want? So, what what it would change?"

Joaquin Fabres: Mhm.

Maximiliano Fabres: And I ask myself those things. And I would And my my answer is like I mean, I would I wouldn't change that much, actually. It would be just the same. So, I think enjoying the process it would would the the main goal to me. That's how I see it. But, knowing that consistency, being disciplined, planning, putting effort, having a passion for it, I think all those things helps you to to achieve those goals.

Joaquin Fabres: Yeah, for sure. Like I think um well, Steve Jobs talked about this. Uh it was I thought he put it in such a great way. He says, "Well, the reason why you have to be passionate about what you want

Maximiliano Fabres: Mhm.

Joaquin Fabres: is because it's so hard that nobody in their right mind would keep doing it for as long as it needs to be done so that at the end you actually, you know, succeed."

Maximiliano Fabres: Yeah.

Joaquin Fabres: So, I think I think that there is a lot of truth to to that statement.

Maximiliano Fabres: Yeah.

Joaquin Fabres: Well, you you have to keep improving and improving and improving so much that that is just

Maximiliano Fabres: Yeah.

Joaquin Fabres: nobody who doesn't enjoy it like would survive.

Maximiliano Fabres: Yeah, and you have a good days, you have bad days. And sometimes you have no motivation and I think like taking the responsibility within yourself and with your clients,

Joaquin Fabres: Mhm.

Maximiliano Fabres: uh that's show how professional you are. And how responsible you are. So, if you're professional enough, you go through those moments that you have no motivation.

Joaquin Fabres: Mhm.

Maximiliano Fabres: And then you know that you're consistent in the in the future, it's going to be worth it. But then, yeah, I of course like passion it helps a lot. Um but it's but again, I really try to um be aware of like we we just have the present moment.

Joaquin Fabres: Mhm.

Maximiliano Fabres: Like here, us now having this conversation. Or with my clients, that moment sharing those ideas. And that's like being present of how grateful you are to having those moments. I would think that that would be the main thing to be aware of and and what you when you should be like seeking.

Joaquin Fabres: Mhm.

Maximiliano Fabres: Um and then the rest it follows. But again, of course, like being disciplined, working hard, putting attention on details, uh trying to be better, I think it is a key. And knowing that there's no recipe for this. Everyone has his own way. I have seen like documentaries, podcasts, reading books, biographies of artists, and there's no one way.

Joaquin Fabres: Oh my god, I love that. I love that. Well, whoever's watching you, if they watched past episode, I mentioned and I've mentioned you so much the same podcast,

Maximiliano Fabres: Mhm.

Joaquin Fabres: Founders.

Maximiliano Fabres: Uh-huh.

Joaquin Fabres: Cuz it only talks about biographies.

Maximiliano Fabres: Uh-huh.

Joaquin Fabres: I think that's so great because you see like incredibly different paths

Maximiliano Fabres: Yeah.

Joaquin Fabres: that just like end up doing the same things. Before we finish,

Maximiliano Fabres: Mhm.

Joaquin Fabres: cuz I know the food has arrived.

Maximiliano Fabres: Uh-huh.

Joaquin Fabres: What would you like to say to the audience?

Maximiliano Fabres: If you're searching for a tattoo artist or you want to ask anything, I'm really open to answer whatever you you wanted to ask about the the tattooing, my creative process, or anything else. You can find me in Instagram, lajota tattoo, l a j o t a tattoo. If you want to get a tattoo, you can link the the form in my bio. I'm going to launch my own webpage pretty soon.

Joaquin Fabres: Really? Geez. Okay. Okay.

Maximiliano Fabres: Yeah. I'm going to show you later. I think you're going to you're going to love it.

Joaquin Fabres: Yeah, I think I am.

Maximiliano Fabres: And that's it. Thank you for inviting me. For me it's a pleasure to be here. I'm I'm so happy that you are doing this. I told you already. As we were talking about in this episode how important is to be passionate about it. I can see your passion while you're doing this. I think you're really good. So, I hope this podcast evolve in a way that makes you happy. I think that's the most important. So, thank you for having me. And I'm really looking forward to see how this experiment result.

Joaquin Fabres: Joaquin, thank you very much being part of the podcast.

Maximiliano Fabres: To you, my it's a pleasure. It's a pleasure always to talk with you.

Joaquin Fabres: Yeah, it is it is it really it really is. Please subscribe to YouTube, Instagram, TikTok, and Spotify. There we go. Yeah, well, thank you very much for watching. See you next week.