Jamie Tipper: Full Podcast Transcript
- beyondhorizon965
- Aug 2
- 50 min read
Host: Maximiliano Fabres
Guest: Jamie Tipper
Location: Bristol, UK
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Maximiliano: Hello guys, welcome back to Beyond the Horizon podcast. Uh the podcast where you expand your horizons of knowledge. Um with me uh today uh Jamie Tipper.
Jamie: Yes.
Maximiliano: Uh so Jamie uh would you like to start with a candle? Lighting off the candle.
Jamie: I'll be honest.
Maximiliano: Oh my goodness.
Jamie: Bloody exciting.
Maximiliano: Yeah. I'm just going to forewarn you. No knowledge is going to be expanded. listening to me talk thick as mint.
Maximiliano: Uh well uh Jamie uh tell us a little about yourself.
Jamie: Um uh um yeah. Um my name's Jamie. I'm an amateur fighter uh trainy teacher. Just Muay Thai enthusiast basically. And yeah, there's not really much else to say other than that.
Maximiliano: No, fair enough. Fair enough. Um, well, I know you studied history and uh you're currently on your ways to uh become a teacher.
Jamie: Yes.
Maximiliano: Aren't you?
Jamie: Yeah. Uh, secondary school teaching. Got my history degree in 2023. Yeah. 23.
Maximiliano: Okay.
Jamie: Got a 21.
Maximiliano: Oh.
Jamie: Did all my assignments last minute. Get up.
Maximiliano: Um, yeah, not much else like, yeah, big history fan. I like old things.
Jamie: Yeah, every historian does, I suppose. I want to sort of bring that passion to to the classroom, I guess.
Maximiliano: Yeah.
Jamie: Yeah. Inspire the next generation so they can all be boring, boring old fossils.
Maximiliano: Fair enough. Fair enough. And what what where did you get your love for history from?
Jamie: Uh, just like ever since I was a kid, really. My parents always took me to like castles and that cuz what little 5-year-old boy doesn't love knights and swords and
Maximiliano: Yeah, literally
Jamie: stuff like that.
Maximiliano: Uh, yeah, just just had an itch for it since then really. Just I think like the sort of narrative um I like the narrative element of history like the idea of stories. Stories are told from like you know We can use 1066, the most important year in English history as the example. It's where everything happened. History starts at 1066. Um,
Jamie: sure.
Maximiliano: It does. Especially in the classroom starts.
Jamie: That's where that's where everything is.
Maximiliano: Get out.
Jamie: That's prehistory. This is history.
Maximiliano: Yeah. Shut up, man.
Jamie: No. Ask any teacher. 1066 is where it all starts.
Maximiliano: Yeah. Any English teacher would say that, of course.
Jamie: Yeah, it's where everything happens. But no, like one side of it is like the Normans think it's the greatest thing that ever happened in the English myself winging about it. Worst year of my life, 1066. Um, yeah, just like the way stories are told, how it shapes everything. And I think as a subject and obviously I want to be a history teacher. I think it's the most important because it equips the youth with like skills around criticality and just thinking. So basically teach about different types of sorts. That's what I'm getting.
Maximiliano: Yeah. It teaches kids to like see through the bull.
Jamie: Oh no. Fair. Fair.
Maximiliano: Okay. Um and what Okay. So, for people who don't know what happened in 1066, not definitely not that I don't know about it, uh what what did happen?
Jamie: I'm going to get emotional talking about it.
Maximiliano: Go on. Uh
Jamie: go on. Some French thugs. Um, no. Um, there was some dispute around who should be the next king of England. Some French thug named William thought it should be him. And then yeah, he came over, killed the uh the new king, Harold Goginsson. uh basically uprooted everything about the management of England and yeah sort of shaped it that's why we have surnames in England
Maximiliano: actually.
Jamie: Yeah. In 1086 he commissioned the doomsday book which is like a big um ledger whereas like it lists everyone their property uh how many like cows and stuff they own and in order to distinguish like where these people were from. So you'd have like well in England at the time you'd have like your name and that' be it. You'd be called something you'd be you'd be called Jamie or you'd be called Nathaniel, you know. And in order to differentiate where these people were from, they'd have Nathaniel the like blacksmith. That's where the name Smith comes from. My last name Tipper is someone that makes arrowheads.
Maximiliano: Arrowheads.
Jamie: Yeah. Or things that go on the ends of it's pretty flexible. things that go on the end of anything.
Maximiliano: Yeah.
Jamie: Yeah. Know, fair enough. Fair enough. So that's how we actually started implementing surnames. It was how how surnames came to England specifically. Like in the like Scandinavian countries, you'll see a lot of like sun at the end of things. So that's their surname like structure. So they' have Joe Blogs, son of Joe Blogs. Joe Joe Blogson.
Maximiliano: Fair enough. Okay. Okay. That that makes a lot of sense. No, the thing is um yeah about the surnames I thought uh well Italians aka Romans had that uh before that.
Jamie: Yeah, I'm I'm not I'm not too sure about like the Latin structures and love. The thing is I know that most of the the legal system about property and so on and all the economics about property has to do with uh the Latin or the Roman code. So for example uh the uh the family structure that we have. So the the fact that we don't see people as individuals but as families comes from uh the Roman code. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That that's what I know. So that's about
Maximiliano: everyday is a school day.
Jamie: Yeah. Well, I guess so. I guess so.
Maximiliano: So um yeah, you said you're a Muay enthusiast and a amateur fighter. So uh tell me a little about uh what Muay Thai is and
Jamie: well if we can start from there I think I think it would be
Maximiliano: So Muay Thai is the national sport of Thailand. Um it's it's a combat sport. So it's fighting. It's uh it's a it's it's not quite kickboxing, but for the sake of just like ease, we'll say it's like kickboxing in terms of like just
Jamie: boxing.
Maximiliano: Yeah.
Jamie: Um if you're doing kickboxing, you're basically a mate. We all know that.
Maximiliano: Get out.
Jamie: Sick of you. But no. mate had enough of them. No. Um, in the sense there's punches and kicks, knees as well, they're implemented in kickboxing, but the the main the main separator is elbows.
Maximiliano: We So, uh, Moto, I think, uh, comes from the art of eight limbs, is it? So,
Jamie: yeah, that's that's the that's one of the names for it. Like art of eight weapons, art of eight limbs. Um, so yeah, you got your punches, that's one and two, kicks three and four, knees five and six, elbows seven and eight. So, um, yeah, it's the coolest sport on the planet. And I think recently the Thai government of not lobbyed, but spoken to like World Heritage and said, "Can you recognize our sport as World Heritage, please?" You've got great company with Stonehenge, the city of Bath, and now more time.
Maximiliano: Jeez.
Jamie: Well, soon to be.
Maximiliano: Soon to be.
Jamie: Um, and I know there's like different classes of Muay Thai fights. I know there's um something that's called Muay Buran as well.
Maximiliano: Uh, that's that's the sort of collective term for like Thai martial arts.
Jamie: Oh, okay. Like I I don't know much about that, but it's different like different regions have different styles of the martial arts that fall under that umbrella of Muay Ban. So, it's yeah, it's some collective terms for like pre Muay Thai Southeast Asia or Thai martial arts.
Maximiliano: Okay.
Jamie: Because Muay in Thai just means fight.
Maximiliano: I know you like your bit of history, so I'm sure you did your research on Muay Thai. Uh, how did it came to be? Uh, and then
Jamie: Yeah. What is it now?
Maximiliano: Uh, what do you mean? Like where did where did it start?
Jamie: Yeah. Where did it start? Well, Thailand, of course.
Maximiliano: Yeah. Oh, when did it start? Sorry, my bad. Um, got to jugg me brain here.
Jamie: Oh, sorry. Sorry. My bad. My bad. Making me think. Putting history teacher on the spotlight. Um I'm not too sure when the sport started but the um the idea of like well the martial art comes from like the battlefield so soldiers would lose their weapons and they instead of thinking oh I don't have anything to fight with they've got like contingency plan. It's the same with like jiu-jitsu in Japan. Um, that's the only other one I can think of really. Like it was a sort of battlefield thing where in case you lost whatever weapons you were using, you'd have to just
Maximiliano: karate judo.
Jamie: Yeah, karate judo.
Maximiliano: Um,
Jamie: crav that was invented a couple decades ago.
Maximiliano: Yeah. Same with
Jamie: by the Australian.
Maximiliano: Yeah. Yeah. Won't get into that.
Jamie: Man, let's go into it now. Only works on our defenses, kids. That's crazy. Up, man. Oh, god.
Maximiliano: It is. Yeah.
Jamie: Yeah. Israel have done massive amounts of damage to
Maximiliano: um No. Um, back back to it. Uh, combat martial arts. Um, yeah.
Jamie: So, just started.
Maximiliano: Yeah. Uh, Thailand was at war with modern day uh, Myanmar quite a lot back in the day.
Jamie: Back in the day, you sure?
Maximiliano: Yeah.
Jamie: It's Cambodia now. Um, yeah. Oh, yeah. There's been like conflict. So, um, I guess from there, like with um, I mean like jiu-jitsu, judo, all of that. You train it and when you're training it, it brings out like competitiveness within you. You want to do better than your peers. You want to show your peers that better than you, better than you. And I think in the 20s, no, it must have been cuz one of the stadiums in Thailand, Rajam N recently, so like end of last year had like its 80th anniversary and that was like the first stadium for Muay Thai. So, the sports give or take about 100 years old.
Maximiliano: Okay.
Jamie: I'm not too sure the exact date, but there's like I think British Path A did some filming in Thailand in like the 30s and stuff about like the fights they had on. And of course, it's like the uh they're using elbow jabs and all of that stuff. It's like this really horrible grainy like choppy black and white footage. It just looks ridiculous. But from that you got that's what I love so much.
Maximiliano: Yeah.
Jamie: Well, um and Okay. So, basically that that that was how the sport was invented. Where did it came from? How was invented? The actual sport
Maximiliano: kind of. Okay.
Jamie: It's just the reason I've made up right now probably. You know, uh check it up on Wikipedia. Wikipedia.
Maximiliano: Yeah. Google it.
Jamie: Oh yeah, that's what that's what a real history teacher will tell you. I just Google it.
Maximiliano: Google that. Uh uh but uh how do you actually distinguish then? Um now uh proper Mai from from things that you would say are just piece a piece of martial art. I don't know.
Jamie: What do you mean? Do you mean like how would I distinguish Muay Thai from another striking system or
Maximiliano: um I mean I I would say it's mainly out of the elbows, isn't it?
Jamie: Yeah, elbows in in terms of the sport like you've got clinching as well, but clinching is the sort of term like you get that in old old boxing. So like when I wrote my dissertation, it was on like bare knuckle boxing in the Georgian era. There was a lot of like grappling involved in that.
Maximiliano: A lot of benefit was like biting and stuff, headbutts and like grappling exchanges which throughout
Jamie: back to that
Maximiliano: throughout the
Jamie: make the sport a bit more like palatable I guess. But um throughout the years like clinching in boxing has been like whittleled away by like you had
Maximiliano: that much.
Jamie: Yeah. You had like the London Prize Ring rules said you couldn't do XY Z and then you have the the rules we follow now which is well the basis of the rules we follow now is the uh Queensbury rules
Maximiliano: in boxing.
Jamie: Yeah. Yeah. In boxing. So this fellow called the Marquez of Queensbury was like right here's how I'm going to like say D here's the rules you have to follow and then that's the the sort of foundation that the sport's gone on like no the foundation of the rules in the sport. So like it set out rounds you have you had what it introduced the count. So in boxing someone gets knocked down they have 10 seconds to get back up. Back in the day, you had about I think you had 20 or 30 seconds and you had to you had to go up to what was called the scratch is where we get the phrase up to scratch. So if something's not up to scratch, it's not fit to carry on. That's that's where we get that from. So you'd have to stand up. Your man in the corner would like bring you to the scratch. If you could stand there, they'd be like, "Right, you're fit to carry on." But that's Yeah. Like there's a lot of modern boxing rules are based off that.
Maximiliano: So that's how you distinguish it. So the clinching, elbows, and knees.
Jamie: Yeah. And the the pacing as well. It's quite it's quite a slow sport.
Maximiliano: It is. That's that's what I've seen. Like it took me a while to get into starts quite slow. That's because of the gambling culture in Thailand.
Maximiliano: Oh, does it?
Jamie: Yeah. It's It's the only It's the only thing you're legally allowed to gamble on in Thailand. Who's going to die? Yeah. Legally. Legally. Yeah. Yeah. Like all all other gambling is
Maximiliano: well illegal basically.
Jamie: Yeah. Like uh a lot of gambling happens in the stadiums while fights are happening. So the
Maximiliano: I'll call them bookies
Jamie: because that's that's the term English people understand. Yeah. They'll they'll watch the fighters the first two rounds. They'll see how they're reacting to things, how they're looking, what their shapes like. Okay. Odds are uh say red corn is going to win, blue corn is going to lose. In Thailand, the red corn is usually the favorite
Maximiliano: in the
Jamie: in the stadiums. But like traditional Muay Thai, red corner is the one that the gamblers think are going to win. Blue corn is the underdog.
Maximiliano: I know that there's a lot uh of culture in Thailand of starting fighters very young.
Jamie: Yeah.
Maximiliano: Because it's a national sport. Uh it's just like football I would say like to to make like the picture uh I don't know for for the viewers is it's it's just like football for Brazilians
Jamie: they start very young they start competing very young and so on and
Maximiliano: well yeah
Jamie: yeah a lot of um a lot of the child fighters you see they're fighting because I'm not sure what the percentage is but the majority of ties live under the poverty line. So in like regions like Isan and stuff like that, the very poor regions like the children will fight so they can bring more money like to their families.
Maximiliano: Uh can you actually search the the poverty like or the average wage in Thailand?
Jamie: I think I think it might be 2/3 but
Maximiliano: 2/3.
Jamie: Yeah, I think two3 of people live under the poverty line
Maximiliano: actually.
Jamie: Yeah,
Maximiliano: that's crazy. That's that's actually
Jamie: I might be wrong. So ple please correct us if uh if if I am
Maximiliano: wage is uh monthly is 97,000 bar which is around wait
Jamie: 90,000
Maximiliano: 97,000 t
Jamie: so about 100 tat is a conversion
Maximiliano: is it one to five
Jamie: think I think I think 100,000 tie bar is like 20 grand.
Maximiliano: Two. Well, this is 2,700 for and that's for the monthly salary which actually seems pretty decent.
Jamie: 2,700 pounds. Okay. For that's the minimum or average.
Maximiliano: It's got to be yearly cuz there's no way that's
Jamie: Yeah, I know. Of course.
Maximiliano: Yeah.
Jamie: So,
Maximiliano: average annual salary is around actually. Yeah, the average annual salary in Thailand is around 1 million B which is 32,000.
Jamie: Okay, this is the problem. There's a book called How to Lie with Statistics. Great book. Uh and this basically how to how the media Yeah. how the media basically changes uh perception based of different things. So, and now that we went for the average, we could actually search the median. So, or actually 50% of the population uh lives and that'll be way lower because I know there's like big tide billionaires and so on especially coming from the sports and well others.
Maximiliano: Not really fighters.
Jamie: I mean the guys who own the stadiums.
Maximiliano: Oh yeah. Yeah. They make a lot of money but like the fighters historically haven't. So like back in back in the 80s and 90s which is what was uh uh retrospectively referred to as the golden era
Jamie: it's like there was just a big economic boom in Thailand. So like the stadiums were just full of people like I think the 90s was kind of just like an economic boom for most of the world to be fair. Like that Britain there's a lot of like people moving from like working class up to middle class stuff like that. Um, yeah. So, the golden era, like fighters would fight loads, be fighting like every few times a month or like twice a month, something like that.
Maximiliano: That's crazy to fight.
Jamie: Yeah.
Maximiliano: So, just so you know, I know boxers fight like once every three months and that's like a lot.
Jamie: Pros maybe.
Maximiliano: Yeah. Pros. I'm not sure I'm not like amateur boxers box a lot,
Jamie: but they they have like a period in the year where it's like the season for it
Maximiliano: and they'll do like one every other week,
Jamie: right?
Maximiliano: But amateur boxing is like three rounds. It's not 12 rounds.
Jamie: Yeah. Yeah.
Maximiliano: And there's a lot more money in boxing. So you don't have to fight as regularly if you're like at the top of the sport. Well, anyway, so how did you get into mon? What was the reason? Because you seem like obsessed with this.
Jamie: Oh, I am. Yeah, it was actually through UFC 2 for the Xbox. Yeah.
Maximiliano: UFC 2.
Jamie: Greatest game ever made.
Maximiliano: That's crazy.
Jamie: Um, you do like a create your own fighter thing in like the uh in the career mode. You start, you give them a name obviously name them after yourself and then it's like choose your style and it's like boxing, kickboxing, Muay Thai. I was the that Googled it. I was in like year 10 at the time. See like the classic top 10 Muay Thai knockout videos. I'm like, whoa, this is badass. I'm like, this rocksa didn't know anything about the sport. No clue. So I just saw like big flashy knockouts and I was like um uh kind of forgot about it while I was going through college. Took a year out between college and uni which was 2020. So I was in my house all the time.
Maximiliano: Very interesting.
Jamie: Yeah. Cheers government locking me in my house. Um, yeah. Then me and my mom were looking at what societies UI had to offer. I was like, "Oh, kickboxing a Muay Thai. I know what that is. I'll join that." I was like, hadn't trained Muay Thai before then. I'd done like a bit of trouser kickboxing as a kid, so like head guards in big stupid padded shoes.
Maximiliano: Just Well, it's child's play in it really.
Jamie: Yeah. But um I was in like my primary school's dinner hall like after the school and shut and um yeah go go to UI start out with like yeah they did like three taster sessions and that I was like all right cool you know I'll start this during the first warm up of the first one I was nearly sick yeah I was a lump I was a was about must have been like 75 80 kilos I was a sphere mate I was built like a all and um yeah started out I was like bloody hell this is this is really hard um came back two days later still aching I was just like right I want to get good at this because this is cool from there I think I did yeah I did it throughout my undergrad it's the reason I stayed at uni actually I was like hate it winging and um I I was like, if I stay, I get to carry on with this. I get to carry on with like training my time, man. So, I was like, stop it. I'll stay and I get a degree at the end of it.
Maximiliano: Oh, so you actually stayed?
Jamie: Yeah. Yeah, mate. Like, dude, the the sport has stopped me my life up many many times. Like, I I owe it so much.
Maximiliano: So, so that's Oh, that's so good, mate.
Jamie: Yeah. Yeah, it is. Um so yeah I trained at UEIE for um first year, second year, third year. Yeah the whole time I was there. So my three year undergrad trained there.
Maximiliano: Uh started coaching there in my second year of training. So after my first year like I was picking up a few sessions because one of the other coaches Flynn had to do like his dissitation and stuff. So he had to take like he had to step back a bit from coaching and I was just like I'll take a session here and there if you can't. So
Jamie: And how different was it the first time you reckon
Maximiliano: or coaching?
Jamie: Yeah. Is it difficult?
Maximiliano: Yeah. Like Yeah, it is. But the first time I coached I just ripped off some stuff I'd seen from like seminars I've been to. They're like Thai champions will come over here. They'll do like a seminar in some sports center.
Jamie: Yeah.
Maximiliano: Me and my mate opposite went to I think the first one we went to was in Watford. It was this champion. No, still my favorite fighter. Um yeah, he was just like teaching some of his like favorite techniques and stuff. He's a very simple like nice, effective, I'd say beautiful style, but um that's just me being a bit of a nerd about the sport.
Jamie: Something like that. Yeah, it's like it's a very like nice technical clean style. So, it translate it translates well to teach and stuff like that because it's simple.
Maximiliano: Yeah.
Jamie: You know, flashy stuff looks nice to teach. Um, so yeah, went there. I was like, yeah, Flynn was like, "Oh, the session this Saturday will be off." And I was like, "I just went to a seminar. I can I've written down all the drills I learn. I can, you know, teach those if that's all right. And, you know, God bless him. Flynn was like, "Yeah, I'll give you I'll give you this. I'll give you this shot." And I was like, "Fick." And then, yeah, coached from my second year to finishing my undergrad. And then my first year of postgrad studies, I was the was the president of the uh of UI kickboxing and Muay Thai. Big up you. Yeah. some arc that starting out as some like fat little loser, starting out like that and then being proverbial big dog, you know.
Maximiliano: Yeah. No, well done to you. Well done to you. So, uh and after you you started training, did you uh started uh as an amateur fighter?
Jamie: No, I I started
Maximiliano: Or when when did you start amateur fighting?
Jamie: My first well my first amateur fight was last month.
Maximiliano: Oh, actually
Jamie: yeah, it was
Maximiliano: congrats.
Jamie: Cheers. Didn't win it, but looked clean. Like it was nice. Nice for me. I was like my movement was good. My defense was good, but like cuz I fought for the uni like the sort of uni fights and stuff.
Maximiliano: Oh, really? So, is it like a league?
Jamie: No, it's not. Like our uni will host a fight night. We'll have our team versus say like three other unis will send a few we'll take a few fighters from each matched up against our lot. So we'll put like a like a notice out. We'll say we've got 10 fights. We've got we'll take like you know we'll say you know here's a form anyone that from your side that wants to compete send the details and then we have our side our details and we'll match based on that. So I did two of those. My first one was like five months into training, I think. Five months into training. Um,
Maximiliano: I've I've always loved when when you're like matched up.
Jamie: 65 kilos. Way too heavy for me. Thought this big lad from
Maximiliano: 80 80 what?
Jamie: 65 key. So 65 kg.
Maximiliano: Okay.
Jamie: Is too heavy for someone my size. Um, I fought I fought this big lad from Plymouth and he punched my head in. He smacked me about for three rounds. Um, I got out the ring and I was like, "When's the next one? When's the next one?"
Maximiliano: Which was uh pretty good.
Jamie: That does happen a lot in uh tie boxing.
Maximiliano: Yeah.
Jamie: Yeah.
Maximiliano: Just like you get like thrown into somebody like 10 kilos. Well, he he wasn't 10 kilos heavier, but
Jamie: my my first amateur, so the one I had last month was at 57 kilos.
Maximiliano: Okay,
Jamie: just just to like put that into perspective. And my next one, which I'm hoping is in March,
Maximiliano: uh is going to be at 55.
Jamie: So 10 kilos from what I what I'm fighting at now to what I first fought at.
Maximiliano: Okay.
Jamie: So like the lad I thought was like that much taller than me. Built like a gorilla. He just smacked me about and I was like, "My head hurts. My head hurts. My head hurts." He smacked me in round three with this big like I think it was a right hand just went bam side of my head. Head snaps down like that.
Maximiliano: Oh, and I st I'm like like the eyesight was like bathroom mirrors
Jamie: when when it hits your ear.
Maximiliano: No, it was
Jamie: Have you heard it when it hits your Yeah.
Maximiliano: No, I haven't. It was the side of my head about here. My head just went
Jamie: and then like know like frosted glass. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Maximiliano: That's what my eyesight was like.
Jamie: I was absolutely I couldn't see. I was just like,
Maximiliano: where am I? Where am I? Where am I?
Jamie: And I I take an 8 count reps. You want to carry on? I'm like, yeah.
Maximiliano: Yeah. Self-preservation doesn't exist. Um
Jamie: I know. M is one of And this is the reason why I love Mer and I hate uh football. Yeah. football.
Maximiliano: If if you're good at a sport and you like it, carry on with it.
Jamie: No, off, mate. Anyway, uh no, I just don't like football because the main the main problem that I have with most of the sports is if you're winning, you can step back and play defensive.
Maximiliano: You can do that in more time.
Jamie: I thought you get discounted uh points discounted if you
Maximiliano: No. What?
Jamie: In modern life,
Maximiliano: I've been lied to my whole life.
Jamie: You have. You have. In in traditional Muay Thai, like
Maximiliano: you get discounted.
Jamie: Oh, no. No. It's all about control. So, if you can win a fight, if you can control a fight on the back foot,
Maximiliano: great. You don't have to be the one marching forward to win. Like,
Jamie: you can play defensive. It's brilliant. You know, I've got a defensive style, so I take offense to that. No. Um,
Maximiliano: yeah, I've got quite a just naturally defensive style,
Jamie: back foot fighter. I'm not some knuckle dragger, believe it or not. I know I look like one, but
Maximiliano: you kind of look like one. You kind of look like you would have a head tattoo. You know what I mean? Like, or like I don't know,
Jamie: like a Mike Tyson eye tattoo.
Maximiliano: Yeah, kind of.
Jamie: Face tattoo or something.
Maximiliano: No. grow my hair back out. Don't like that.
Jamie: Um, yeah, I've got a defensive style. You can win fights off that. Like in Muay Thai, it's it's not scored like boxing. So like obviously if you're in like if your back's against the ropes and you're getting filled in by someone, you're losing because he he he he's in control of that fight.
Maximiliano: Yeah.
Jamie: But if you're like on the back foot keeping him away, scoring when you have to, you can win a fight like that.
Maximiliano: Yeah.
Jamie: Yeah. Of course.
Maximiliano: I thought I thought it was uh about aggression. Well, not aggression, but like um enga engagement or something like that.
Jamie: That and controlling. Control is the main one. So like
Maximiliano: like older Muay Thai. So I well not older but like traditional Muay Thai because you've got traditional Muay Thai and now like entertainment Muay Thai.
Jamie: We'll get into the difference in a second, but like traditionally
Maximiliano: rounds one and two very slow.
Jamie: Yeah. So, so the fighters can pick up like they can pick up their opponent's tells, see how they react to certain things. The gamblers can say, "Oh, Luke Horn is looking stronger than I thought." You know, they have this whole system of like hand gestures to communicate with other gamblers like across the ring. It's mental.
Maximiliano: Um, and yeah, they're just talking. Not talking. What What was I even saying? Yeah. So, they they'll see for the first two rounds,
Jamie: they'll see where they're at. Rounds three and four are the money rounds. That's where the gamblers put all their money in.
Maximiliano: Oh
Jamie: So they're the most important. They're the ones that score the most. So like if you win round three and four, you've won the fight like in in the in the stadiums, but
Maximiliano: it's it's more about control and willpower.
Jamie: Mhm.
Maximiliano: So it's about uh in terms of like the ring is showing that your willpower is like controls that fight. So, if you want to be on the back foot and be defensive, cool. Just don't let your opponent like uh outpace you too much. Control the pace of it. Control the rhythm of the fight. Like there's a whole style um like centered around that. But you've got more aggressive styles like my mat. That's like your boxer low kicker style.
Jamie: Uh my cow, which is like well cow is knee. So that's your clinching style.
Maximiliano: Okay.
Jamie: this guy likes it.
Maximiliano: Yeah.
Jamie: Nathaniel, the guy that was on the podcast.
Maximiliano: He loves it.
Jamie: He loves
Maximiliano: He loves a knees, man.
Jamie: Big up Nathaniel.
Maximiliano: What? What? What's up with it?
Jamie: I was his coach,
Maximiliano: actually.
Jamie: That's crazy.
Maximiliano: That's not that. But, uh, yeah. So, like
Jamie: I don't know. I've never seen him fight. The only thing I've seen him uh do is wrestle. and he not a great wrestler. Let's let's do let's say that he's not a great wrestler
Maximiliano: cuz he's cuz he's a striker. Damn it.
Jamie: Is he Is he a strike? Yeah.
Maximiliano: Yeah, he's a striker. Big brave thie boxers.
Jamie: I mean, we also boxed as well.
Maximiliano: He's not a good boxer.
Jamie: It's cuz he couldn't kick, knee, or elbow you.
Maximiliano: Probably. You you took away you took away his toolbox and you're like, "Why can't you fix this?"
Jamie: No.
Maximiliano: Shocking. Shocking. This guy fixes fights. Fight picker.
Jamie: Absolutely. Yes. Absolutely. Of course.
Maximiliano: Shocking.
Jamie: But no, like you've got aggressive styles and then the like the technical like defensive style called like Moima. So that's centered around just like having the right tool for the job. You know, you've got all the tools at your disposal. air timing, IQ, all of that. That's what Muay Thai is. Like kickboxing, you watch like K1 and like the Japanese and Dutch styles, they're very aggressive. They'll just stand in the middle of the ring and take chunks out of each other.
Maximiliano: Dutch in particular. They're crazy. Japanese are a little bit more calmer in my opinion, but
Jamie: the Japanese are very explosive.
Maximiliano: Yeah.
Jamie: Like, yeah, it's quite fun to watch, but I wouldn't want to fight it. Like I don't like I don't like the pace.
Maximiliano: No,
Jamie: I don't like the pace. I don't like the three three minute rounds.
Maximiliano: No.
Jamie: No. Muay Thai is five five rounds. And that's that's the difference between
Maximiliano: five threes, two minutes in between. That's traditional Muay Thai.
Jamie: Entertainment Muay Thai.
Maximiliano: Yeah. That's that's why it never really took off like it's two minutes so the gamblers can
Jamie: fuff about between rounds. Yeah. Yeah. Like a lot of Muay Thai like the structure of it is influenced by the gambling.
Maximiliano: Okay.
Jamie: So yeah like crazy
Maximiliano: because it it could have taken off. Well it's it's now taking off.
Jamie: Entertainment Muay Thai is taking off. It's not it's not like traditional Muay Thai. So the pure the purist in me.
Maximiliano: Okay. Let's go let's go into that then. What's what's the difference?
Jamie: It's mainly the rounds.
Maximiliano: The rounds.
Jamie: The rounds. So traditional Muay Thai 53 threes 2 minutes in between entertainment three threes 1 minute in between.
Maximiliano: So more like K1.
Jamie: Yeah. More like K1. So it's like
Maximiliano: which is
Jamie: it's a fun sport to watch but it's not Muay Thai.
Maximiliano: Yeah. Okay. Okay.
Jamie: I'll be I'll be a diplomat here. I'll say that.
Maximiliano: But
Jamie: that's crazy. Okay.
Maximiliano: All you K1 fighters, you don't do Muay Thai. That's what he's saying. Basically,
Jamie: they know that they do K1. Good point. Good point. But no, um, yeah, like one championship is like the sort of flagship was the flagship for entertainment Muay Thai. They use them little MMA gloves.
Maximiliano: Yeah.
Jamie: Um, they encourage like slugging it out in the middle of the ring.
Maximiliano: Like they don't they don't like the pace of like stadium Muay Thai.
Jamie: Yeah.
Maximiliano: So they'll have these fighters that they've picked out of all the stadiums. I put them in the ring and they'll be like, "Right, you need to just take junks out of each other."
Jamie: Yeah. Yeah. Just go at it.
Maximiliano: Yeah. Those little gloves don't encourage like the other weapons in Muay Thai. So, you'll have like 8 oz gloves in the stadiums.
Maximiliano: Yeah. So, like standard boxing glove sizes.
Jamie: Yeah.
Maximiliano: Well, that's 16, isn't it?
Jamie: No.
Maximiliano: Oh, 16's for sparring. Yeah, maybe. But in in the actual stadiums, eight oz.
Jamie: 8 oz.
Maximiliano: 8 oz gloves. Yeah.
Jamie: Same with boxing. I think in in boxing, if you're under 70k, you use eight. If you're over, you use 10. I might be wrong.
Maximiliano: All right.
Jamie: Any boxes, correct me, please. Um, yeah,
Maximiliano: put it in the comments.
Jamie: Boost the engagement a bit.
Maximiliano: Yeah, I know.
Jamie: Yeah. So the 4 oz gloves encourage you to just like chin someone basically
Maximiliano: because it's a smaller glove like the force gets it's more concentrated.
Jamie: So big gloves they won't won't get chinned in a 16 for the most part
Maximiliano: but your head will go like that because it's a bigger surface area whereas in little gloves it doesn't move your head as much
Jamie: but it hurts
Maximiliano: but you get chinned.
Jamie: Yeah. I I'm not sure how much like what the force needed to spark someone out is but it's not a lot. and concentrating on like well the gloves aren't much bigger than your hand
Maximiliano: like just lights out so it encourages like like ties to just stand there and go
Jamie: I know you said no crazy arm movements sorry about that
Maximiliano: director face is on police
Jamie: yeah like whereas like in Muay Thai the big score is the body kick
Maximiliano: so they'll stand there they'll body kick each other, body kick, body kick. Whereas in one, like any 4 oz Muay Thai fight or organization that does it,
Jamie: they'll just swing at each other. Yeah.
Maximiliano: Yeah.
Jamie: That's why in like MMA, there's not much there's not like kicks aren't scored very highly
Maximiliano: and so they don't do it. And plus, like if you get if someone catches your leg, they can take you down.
Jamie: Yeah. Yeah. You're
Maximiliano: Yeah. like there's there's less emphasis on the kick in in the west especially. We come from like a punching culture.
Jamie: Um so yeah, you know, boxing is like the main western fighting sport.
Maximiliano: Um and that's sort of seeped into what what we view as like real fighting.
Jamie: Yeah.
Maximiliano: So like drunk people just like swing and try to take lumps out of each other
Jamie: instead of me.
Maximiliano: Yeah. Like I've never seen drunk Thai people fight.
Jamie: It's not going to be like stadium Muay Thai, is it? But it's not going to be
Maximiliano: But I'm sure there'll be a kick somewhere. There will be a kick for sure.
Jamie: They're so quick with the kick. Saw saw this video this um from one of the stadiums like these Russians were in I think it was like Phuket or one of the other islands in Thailand. These Russians were like mouththing off and like basically this brawler erupted in the ring. This tie guy hops over the hops over the ropes. First thing he does is throw a body kick.
Maximiliano: Just hops in. Hops into this mass brawl body kick.
Jamie: That's like fair.
Maximiliano: I up with it.
Jamie: I mean, it's fun to watch.
Maximiliano: I don't know how much it scores in a brawl, but in Muay Thai that scores quite a bit.
Jamie: Probably a tip is so a front kick basically. I feel that would work in a in a brawl. I don't know why. It takes people off balance, you know.
Maximiliano: Yeah.
Jamie: It's a tool for a job, isn't it?
Maximiliano: You know,
Jamie: um you shouldn't words to the wise if you're in a drunk kathuffle or any such um entanglement. Don't smack someone in the head with a fist because you run the risk of breaking all the bones in your hand.
Maximiliano: It's not fun.
Jamie: I've never done it.
Maximiliano: Me neither. Absolutely not. take his word for it. It's not fun.
Jamie: Yeah. Yeah. Like, you know, you've got all the tiny little bones in your hand.
Maximiliano: If you smack that against a big slab of bone like your forehead.
Jamie: Yeah. Just go for the nose. Not that I know why, but just go for the nose.
Maximiliano: Choosing the right to remain silent on that, but no. Um, so yeah, traditional Muay Thai is more centered around like the techniques of like the martial art Muay Thai. So there's more clinching, more kicks, they scored differently. It's paced differently. Whereas entertainment Muay Thai is, pardon me, solely centered around entertainment. It's it's kind of like, pardon me, video essays versus Instagram res. Think about it like that. So like Instagram real like right
Jamie: quick
Maximiliano: quick do hits versus some video essay about a film you know
Jamie: like someone really like getting into like and dissecting like scoring pace like oh he's controlled this exchange really well he's he's controlled this he's doing this he's doing that whereas entertainment Muay Thai is is scored like kickboxing so there's less emphasis on body kicks
Maximiliano: they like to shut a clinch down pretty quickly in like one championship especially and Raja Nan World Series.
Jamie: I got to say I do watch one I do one championship and I really like it. I know I know it breaks your heart. Yeah, it does.
Maximiliano: Does leaving some 10th episode that isn't it? Guest walks out. Oh yeah, by the way, uh for the viewers watching, we are now uh a one top one uh percent uh podcast.
Jamie: That's why they brought me in.
Maximiliano: Yeah. And we brought him in. Why?
Jamie: Oh, you're not the average podcast.
Maximiliano: You need a man that isn't average.
Jamie: Yeah, absolutely. Oh,
Maximiliano: stroke my own ego a bit.
Jamie: Come on.
Maximiliano: Uh yeah. So would you recommend people to start Muay Thai
Jamie: or other martial arts?
Maximiliano: And how would you say
Jamie: they should they should start Muay Thai and they should train at Combat Warriors gym in Bristol because that's the gym I train. Shout out to Combat Warriors
Maximiliano: and beg sessions with him. All right.
Jamie: I'm not a coach there. I'm not good enough. But um
Maximiliano: Oh, two of our coaches are in the UK top 10.
Jamie: Oh yeah. Oh yeah. We're we're quite a small gym, but like the quality of the fighters there is phenomenal.
Maximiliano: The smallest gyms are normally the uh the best ones. I don't know why, but it's always like that.
Jamie: I I I agree. Combat Warriors is the best gym in uh in the country. Best gym in Bristol for sure.
Maximiliano: Shout out Shout out to his coach.
Jamie: Shout out Shout out to Mark May. Uh WBC British champion. Uh, George Lynch, UK top 10 fighter. Shout out to Dave, former Intercontinental kickboxing champion.
Maximiliano: Jeez.
Jamie: Shout out to Rob.
Maximiliano: He runs uh, Boxed. They they they pro they they run ticket management for shows.
Jamie: So to save yourself hassle, get unboxed.
Maximiliano: Changing the fight game.
Jamie: O, o. Okay. some big names in Rob.
Maximiliano: Rob's not Rob's not big in the fighting.
Jamie: He's not too big in like domestic fighting, but he's an absolute machine when it comes to admin for fight shows.
Maximiliano: Yeah.
Jamie: Yeah. Oh, phenomenal. Like, yeah. Boxed his company changing the game.
Maximiliano: I mean, mate, you need that cornerstone for for martial arts.
Jamie: Well, yeah. At the end, that's that's what that's what fighting is. At the end of the day, it's business, a show business. And if somebody has that, then then they're good to go. They're good to Yeah. So, um, you would say, uh, you would recommend every person to go for my
Maximiliano: Yes.
Jamie: Every single person.
Maximiliano: I mean, well, I'm obviously biased. There's someone that trains and competes in it, but
Jamie: absolutely. Yeah, I'd recommend it. I like boxing as well. Not very good at that,
Maximiliano: but boxing is a good good thing to get into. I think boxing or even Muay Thai, leaning more towards Muay Thai, but realistically boxing should be on the national curriculum in schools. It should be taught in school
Jamie: really. And
Maximiliano: yeah,
Jamie: do what? Why?
Maximiliano: It's good for that. It's good for your body. And I think to be honest like no one really wants to do PE and train cricket do they?
Jamie: Yeah.
Maximiliano: I say I said train cricket play cricket like
Jamie: Yeah. Yeah. They don't they don't train.
Maximiliano: No cricket's like it's an old boys game you know.
Jamie: I mean
Maximiliano: whereas like I think if you can get the kids doing like boxing get them doing any martial art it will teach them discipline. It will teach them like it lets them know what they can do.
Jamie: It keeps them humble. Um, and you know, I'm I'm someone that likes to avoid conflict because I get enough of it at the gym. You know,
Maximiliano: I feel that's that's something that does do so I would say I would I think I used to do martial arts and I've done them for many many years. and I would divide martial arts from martial sports.
Jamie: So K1 for me is it's a sport.
Maximiliano: So a martial sport or boxing would be a sport, not even a martial sport.
Jamie: No, it's a it's a martial sport.
Maximiliano: It's a martial sport. Western boxing is a martial art and to suggest otherwise is asoine.
Jamie: Oh, I don't see any because for me martial arts have this
Maximiliano: but you have to wear like a conduct.
Jamie: You have to wear a ghee. You have belts.
Maximiliano: No, no, it has nothing to do with that.
Jamie: Boxing boxing boxing has a conduct.
Maximiliano: It's like it's like
Jamie: it's more of a philosophy behind it. That's what I would call a martial art normally comes from with a philosophy as well which mito does have but
Maximiliano: does it
Jamie: what's the philosophy of Muay Thai
Maximiliano: thing is okay you're putting me now uphill on the spot but I' I have seen documentaries about Muay Thai and the philosophies and maybe I'm wrong or maybe I was by the internet which
Jamie: everything on the internet is true. It wouldn't be there if it was a lie.
Maximiliano: Yeah. No, absolutely.
Jamie: No, there there is a philosophy in Muay Thai, but that's um a a lot of people see it as more philosophical kind of because it's foreign, you know, like
Maximiliano: Yeah, of course. Like there there's all these terms like fighting heart jais and they're like this is mad this is mental because like
Jamie: they go for the hype they go for the clicks man
Maximiliano: like because it's foreign it seems like a new thing like people are surrounded by like western like philosophy you know we we don't see liberalism as a philosophical thing we don't see anarchism as a phil philosophical thing
Jamie: yeah it's all it's all philosophical but Because we're, you know, like a fish doesn't think about water, does it? It's surrounded by it.
Maximiliano: Yeah.
Jamie: It doesn't pay attention to water.
Maximiliano: So, you would still say
Jamie: boxing has a philosophy.
Maximiliano: Of course it does.
Jamie: Yeah.
Maximiliano: Of course.
Jamie: Maybe maybe I should get get into it because uphill I know it's like um Oh, I forgot the name of the of the wrestling style, but it's uh the Greek philosophy.
Maximiliano: Greor Roman. That's the wrestling style.
Jamie: Greco Roman.
Maximiliano: Greor Roman wrestling. Yeah.
Jamie: So, uphill I thought it has it had a particular name, the martial art, but that has a whole philosophical aspect as well.
Maximiliano: So, I I would say that that that it's a martial art, but again, I haven't maybe maybe I haven't
Jamie: gone into uphill boxing philosophy and stuff like that.
Maximiliano: Well, it's the it's the whole thing of like sweet science, isn't it? To hit and not be hit, you know? I I I I I I wrote my my dissertation on like classical boxing. So there there is a philosophy to it. It's not
Jamie: um like particularly like it's not this big foreign like uphill be like water like Bruce Lee. It's not like that.
Maximiliano: Yeah.
Jamie: But there but there is a philosophy to it. It's not these big impressive statements. It is like it's centered a lot around like Greek ideas of like classic masculinity. They took a lot of like um writers at the time like like Pierce Egan took a lot of influence from like Greek masculinity because in the Iliad uphill when I can't remember his name but it was Achilles mate uphill I guess like Petrolicus or something. I probably butchered that. He he he get he gets killed in battle and Achilles is beside himself because that's his mate, uphill his best mate. They fought countless battles together. He's he's mourning and they hold these celebration games. So there was this there was this sport in Greece called pancration.
Maximiliano: Yeah. That that's what I meant with Greek Roman.
Jamie: Yeah. So that it's it's like classic uphill philosophy. Like that's the philosophy boxing started with. Now you don't really see it because it's like you know you have all these figures like Floyd Mayweather, Tyson Fury, all of that. You have these like big crazy characters. You you you uphill You mistake the trees for like No, no, what's the phrase? You've lost the forest.
Maximiliano: The forest.
Jamie: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Maximiliano: That's what it is. That's
Jamie: like it's the same with mixed martial arts, you know? You have people like Conor McGregor, all the big mouthy people, like they they they they put it to like the showbiz thing.
Maximiliano: Yeah. like calling MMA saying MMA it's a conglomerate of well it started out as a conglomerate of martial arts but in uphill in and of itself I'd say it's become its own thing.
Jamie: Yeah.
Maximiliano: Because like the the way they stand, the way they do things like you put an
Jamie: Yeah. If you have if you have an MMA fighter wrestling like an Olympic wrestler,
Maximiliano: they're going to approach it differently.
Jamie: Completely different. Yeah, because one involves different things than the other, you know, like the criteria for it, like criteria for success is different.
Maximiliano: Completely different. Yeah.
Jamie: So, yeah. And like MMA's got it own philosophy, I'm sure.
Maximiliano: Yeah.
Jamie: Because of course it does, you know.
Maximiliano: Yeah.
Jamie: It's just
Maximiliano: um Yeah. May may maybe my my picture the picture that I have in my mind it's a little bit uphill different from uphill what I'm saying but it has to do with uphill aligning aligning a way of life uphill towards everything you do. So I don't
Jamie: Would you say boxing doesn't have that though
Maximiliano: with everything that you do? Um
Jamie: you look at
Maximiliano: probably Yeah. You look at
Jamie: you just don't have the description of it.
Maximiliano: Yeah. It's it's it's it's like what I was saying earlier where like you're surrounded by it, you know, you see it. So you don't it's not this new thing that you think philosophy,
Jamie: you know, it's just like the philosophy for boxing is in the practice of it, you know, it's in the discipline. It's in the training ABC when you're a kid.
Maximiliano: Yeah. I got to say, uphill western philosophy is actually quite practical.
Jamie: Yeah, it's it's very it's very pragmatic.
Maximiliano: Yeah. Yeah.
Jamie: There's a lot of lot of workarounds to it, especially with like modern post enlightenment philosophy.
Maximiliano: Yeah.
Jamie: It's very
Maximiliano: flexible.
Jamie: It has to do with the the way that we view science as well that how we perceive uphill things. We're a lot more uphill attuned towards our senses instead of Chinese philosophy, let's say.
Maximiliano: Yeah.
Jamie: Yeah.
Maximiliano: I I definitely think that's again like a result of the enlightenment.
Jamie: Yeah, most probably.
Maximiliano: Oh no, you're the history teacher here. So
Jamie: I am. But yeah, it's uphill it's the move away from like faith-based philosophy to like uphill like hands-on tangible philosophy. So like Isaac Newton having an apple fall on his head, he's like, "Let's work this out." Because a lot of western philosophy now is more theory based whereas like Chinese philosophy famously is very classic like it's very old like
Maximiliano: very
Jamie: Confucious Sunzu all of that history like obviously history is history but it's ancient history it's very
Maximiliano: you put Sunsu who was a a guy who did tactics who wrote a book about uphill wars. It would be the same as a general and you would never think a general could write philosophy like in the west at least. Would be very weird to see that happen.
Jamie: I'd say Napoleon.
Maximiliano: Napole Yeah. You got like the the odd exceptions but in
Jamie: Yeah. Yeah. Well, the reason Sunzu's tactics were like so good. Well, well, if you if you read the art of war
Maximiliano: Yeah.
Jamie: Well, it's it's a recounting of a conversation between Sunzu and someone that knows piss all about war. So, it's it's like son said to the master, "Appear big when you're small, appear small when you're big." You know, it's mind-blowing stuff when you aren't a general. I imagine if If if Sunzu would like was saying that to other generals, they'd be like, "Yeah,
Maximiliano: sure."
Jamie: Slap him around the back, they'd be like, "Obviously, mate."
Maximiliano: Yeah.
Jamie: But because he was talking to I can't remember. It's been years since I've read it. He was talking to some like noble.
Maximiliano: Yeah. I think it was like the emperor
Jamie: referred to the emperor son
Maximiliano: referred to as the master.
Jamie: Yeah. Son said to the master this, that and the other. It's Yeah. Like again, it's the difference between like it's practice for Sunzu whereas to someone outside of it, it's philosophy, you know?
Maximiliano: That's a good point. That's a fair point. Okay. Um Okay. Um do you have any uphill particular memorable stories? uphill Like one or two in particular that really like maybe focused you towards it.
Jamie: I've got countless, man. I've got a lot. So, obviously starting out uphill nearly being sick three times. I had to take three breaks rusted outside the hall like pardon me. I was like made myself burp doing that. I like come back in in five minutes, have some water, crack back on. I need to go outside again. Then like I suppose the arc from starting out like that to being in charge and like managing like the new generation of fighters you come that's one I'd say that's my biggest like achievement that I've done so far. Um, a lot of me like the memorable things is seeing people I've trained perform well. Win or lose like if they've looked about themselves like if they look like they knew they know what's going on, they're comfortable in that situation. That's another one. My mate Ke, shout out to Ke, he had a he had a very good win recently. His training like I was I was kind of overseeing his training because he's my mate. We were training at Combat Warriors. Shout out Combat Warriors together quite a bit.
Maximiliano: Stop doing mini commercials then.
Jamie: No,
Maximiliano: this guy.
Jamie: Bristol's leading Muay Thai gym. Follow him on Instagram. Combat Warriors gym.
Maximiliano: Yo, cut that out. Cut that out. No, no, I'm kidding. Kidding.
Jamie: Um,
Maximiliano: just No, he will do it. He will go.
Jamie: He will do it. He will do it.
Maximiliano: No. No. No.
Jamie: Um I uphill I'll uphill I'll uphill I'll uphill try to make sure he doesn't I'll try I'll try.
Maximiliano: Right answer.
Jamie: This podcast is brought to you by Combat Warriors Gym.
Maximiliano: Um no, he he had a phenomenal performance. uphill It was a week before my last fight actually,
Jamie: eight days before, so around a week. Like he was himself. Bless him. He was like, "I'm so nervous. I'm so nervous." I was like, "Ke,
Maximiliano: was this his first second uni fight?"
Jamie: So that's like,
Maximiliano: yeah,
Jamie: big big gloves, big thick shining guards.
Maximiliano: That's good.
Jamie: Yeah. So, so it's like amateur. So, what I fight at is 10 oz gloves, thin shining guards, elbow pads.
Maximiliano: Oh, all right.
Jamie: Um, obviously like we'll talk about the classifications in a second. uphill Um yeah, with the uni ones it's big 16 ounce gloves. Well, he fought in 14s because he's under 70 kilos, big big shining guards, uphill three two-minute rounds, minute in between. So it's it's not paced like Muay Thai. It's paced like K1.
Maximiliano: Yeah. Yeah. Quite quick.
Jamie: Yeah. I think I I do personally believe that if it isn't five rounds, it's not really Muay Thai. one championship got in trouble with uphill the Thai government because the the product they were selling like this businessman uphill they they branded it Muay Thai and the Thai government were like no
Maximiliano: that's not
Jamie: this is not Muay Thai so it's it's what's called entertainment Muay Thai so it's a separate product because uphill muay Thai you know there's a lot of
Maximiliano: one championship got in trouble
Jamie: they did there's a lot of cultural aspects the Muay Thai so there's what's called the Y crew before fighting It's like a giving thanks to your teachers, your coaches, your family.
Maximiliano: Yeah, I know. There's this uphill ceremonial.
Jamie: It's like a war dance. Yeah. Dance around the ring.
Maximiliano: The gamblers will use that to be like, "Oh, that's a good round. My money's on him."
Jamie: Really?
Maximiliano: Yeah. Yeah.
Jamie: Yeah. If a fight is half ass in that
Maximiliano: half the rest of the fight. Yeah.
Jamie: Um yeah, there's music in the background which is played by a band in uphill like in the stadium. So one guy will have this little like it's like two little symbols be like that and he'll watch the fight and he'll set that. So the pace of this band that play to the fight. So in the slower parts it'll be a bit slower and as the fight picks up the band will play faster and louder.
Maximiliano: Okay.
Jamie: Yeah. like uni uni Muay Thai. It's 32-minute rounds, no elbows, uphill no wide crew, no nothing offered.
Maximiliano: I'm so sorry. I just saw your jumper. Combat war. This guy. This guy. Oh my god. Did you Okay. Did you put him up to this?
Jamie: No, I chose to myself.
Maximiliano: I'm wearing the shirt as well.
Jamie: Everybody. Okay. Go on. Go on. Show us the shirt.
Maximiliano: Walking billboard, mate. Yeah, this guy like walking talking billboards. Swear down, man. Yeah, combat Warriors. My title.
Jamie: Shout out Combat Warriors.
Maximiliano: uphill Uh, uphill please please I want a marker of like how many times he's he's like made an announcement or something like that, you know, like.
Jamie: All right. So, yeah, Ke won Jess. He had this dominant display. He was worrying about it so much. Bless him. and he just went out and smashed this pork to pieces. It was a very one-sided fight. Um, yeah, I went on runs with him during his like fight camp and he was like quite a bit. I was just like, Ke,
Maximiliano: shut
Jamie: I was like, mate, do you want to win? He was like,
Maximiliano: yeah.
Jamie: And I was like, we got to grind this out then. Training is harder than the fighting is.
Maximiliano: A lot more. A lot harder. Yeah. Yeah. That's that's what separates well other than like rules and pacing and stuff like that. I'd say what separates uni Muay Thai from like amateur just like not even amateur to pro like uni and amateur. I say one like one will be above the other. You know someone will say uni is better because you get to manage more things. You take you can take it less serious. Whereas like someone like me say amateurs like above in some metaphysical way. But like the main the main thing is like how hard people train and like the quality of the fight is because my first fight with the uni five months into training when I was I think I was 19 23 now. uphill I've been training Tai for four years. I've only had one amateur fight last month.
Jamie: Okay. So, it's like way harder.
Maximiliano: Well, yeah, I because I was I had like a I was waiting on a placement from the uni. uphill They had managed to find me one. I still haven't. Um yeah, I I needed something to wake up for. So, I was just like, "Right, my coach Mark, shout out Mark from Combat Warriors. He was uphill Please, somebody count this. Please, please put like a counting measurement.
Jamie: Um, yeah. He was like, "Oh, you know, you you've been you've been in training a bit recently for like started I started back at combat, like the end of last year. uphill I've gone through a breakup in July and I was like, I just need something to do." I went back to training because the flat I'm in now is a lot closer to the gym than my last one. uphill started training again. I was like, "Oh, I knew I needed it back, but I didn't know I needed it back this much." So, it done like wonders for my like head space and that. And Mark was like, "You've been looking good. Do you want to fight on this show in December?" And I was like,
Maximiliano: "Yeah, sold it. Why not?" Needed something to wake up for. Got my ass in the gym every day. Went for runs every day. Just Yeah. Grinded it out. fought, performed well, I think, lost. But it'd been two years since my like last uni fight and my first amateur fight. Two years out of the ring is a long time. And in that time, like I wasn't training a lot. I was I was coaching mainly. uphill I was coaching. I was the president of the society. I was doing like teaching placements and stuff. So it was a bit like just too too much to like juggle, you know?
Jamie: Yeah.
Maximiliano: Especially with like the teaching hours.
Jamie: hell.
Maximiliano: Yeah.
Jamie: Nasty. But um you know, like now it's it's something I'm going to continue with. Like I'm trying to fight in March on the Combat Warriors fight show, 21st of March. Um,
Maximiliano: yeah,
Jamie: let's let's let's actually make it so that your the the the coach at that gym like let's see
Maximiliano: they're they're they're way better than me.
Jamie: So, uphill you will see in March you will see Jipper fighting in his next amateur fight.
Maximiliano: Yeah, man.
Jamie: Come on. Some other memories watching my coach Mark win a WBC British title against a fell named Gary Lewis uphill in Ebale in Wales. It was a very good fight. Um uphill Yeah. Mark just beat the piss out of him.
Maximiliano: Yeah. Very well. Not very one-sided, but quite one-sided.
Jamie: Yeah. uphill Yeah. Like Gary's good, but Mark was just about fought him twice, beat him like quite decisively both times. So just yeah marks leagues above a lot of people. He's a he's a very like he's he's really wellrounded but he is mainly like a Mike so a clincher. uphill Um yeah that's his style. He's a like was rubbed off on Nathaniel as well. He's a clincher. I'm a I'm capable in the clinch. I'm like naturally I'm not. I'm I'm of that moy femur like defensive like back foot slow slow fighter style but
Maximiliano: I can clinch if I have to
Jamie: if push comes to uphill push comes to shove fine uphill I'll throw a couple kns go uphill walk into the clinch class fine uphill fine I have to it's part of the sport
Maximiliano: um yeah it's mainly watching watching mates and people I train with They're like that's my my like the happiest memories I have of the sport.
Jamie: Yeah.
Maximiliano: Yeah. Like we there's uphill what would you say they are now? uphill MTGB. What would you describe him as?
Jamie: Yeah. Yeah. Like what like the like the thing MTGB? Like what would you say they are?
Maximiliano: Sorry. For the viewers in the podcast, we got Nathaniel just watching the podcast. So that's why that's why we're asking. So
Jamie: filmed in front of a live studio audience.
Maximiliano: It's like the UK's uphill governing body for un It's like bucks basically.
Jamie: Yeah. Yeah.
Maximiliano: I think it's a good way to
Jamie: governing body.
Maximiliano: Governing body.
Jamie: Govern body for uphill uni Muay Thai.
Maximiliano: Okay.
Jamie: Muay Thai Great Britain. They do like other things as well like for the sport like they'll they'll help coaches. They run courses on like judging coaching stuff like that.
Maximiliano: Brilliant. They they do wonders for the sport.
Jamie: Amazing. uphill Um especially for the uni circuit. uphill Like they work with box.
Maximiliano: They should do like a league in my opinion.
Jamie: That's what they do. So they've done it for two years.
Maximiliano: A league?
Jamie: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Maximiliano: Really?
Jamie: Yeah. It's brilliant.
Maximiliano: Should do like K1 fight, the look on his face.
Jamie: But no. So So they they they do this league
Maximiliano: rage baiting him.
Jamie: Yeah. I was like, "No." uphill Um, so they do this league and I think the first time we did it, we came third. Second time we did it, we came second.
Maximiliano: They're big. Like for the first two
Jamie: big milestones uphill for like uphill it just shows like the quality in that.
Maximiliano: Yeah. Like because before that you'd have like one fight night a year with your uni uphill and then you might have like one at some away show and then it'd be you know some people that like wouldn't take training too seriously necessarily. They'd be like oh yeah it's just one night. Whereas with this it's like an actual external thing working with Bucks. are like British University Championships. uphill Um, so yeah, it's like Muay Thai isn't a box sport. Trousers kickboxing is, karate is, boxing is, trampolining is, I think gymnastics is, trampolining. Sport in the world.
Jamie: It's all right. It's all right. Most important thing is the audio.
Maximiliano: We'll cut to a we'll cut to an audio segment here, I guess. put like footage of a Muay Thai show in the background just over the top.
Jamie: I mean, it could be good actually.
Maximiliano: Yeah. Put some of mine in there.
Jamie: Yeah. Like my my my sort of biggest like key takeaways in terms of memories haven't been me. It's been the people I've trained with, the people I've trained uphill achieving, you know.
Maximiliano: Yeah. All all of that good stuff.
Jamie: Yeah, man.
Maximiliano: Yeah.
Jamie: Yeah. So, past amateurs, because I said we talk about the classifications, you've got end class, which is what I fought out. That's gloves, shins.
Maximiliano: Mhm.
Jamie: I fought end class with elbows, which most shows are starting to implement now. They're doing like all fights with elbows because it's like the main thing with Muay Thai.
Maximiliano: And you told me you received one. So, that footage is going to definitely appear right now. So, if we just stay with a moment of silence while you receive your elbow.
Jamie: Bloody hell.
Maximiliano: Yeah,
Jamie: there we go. uphill All fights in Mai should be elbows. uphill Uh, like the round timing. So, you got N-class, C-class, B-class, Aclass.
Maximiliano: So, traditionally Nclass didn't have elbows and they had shining guards. C-class no elbows, no shining guards. B-class full tie rules. So like knees to the head and stuff with elbow pads,
Jamie: but it's like five uphill elbow pad. What?
Maximiliano: Elbow pads. So pads on your elbow.
Jamie: Actually, is that does it actually exist? I've never seen
Maximiliano: Yeah, it just stops you getting cut.
Jamie: Yeah. uphill Um and then A class is full tie rules.
Maximiliano: A class.
Jamie: So that's every fight in Thailand is a class.
Maximiliano: Yeah, of course.
Jamie: Um yeah, there just like rounds. So that's 53s, B-class is 52s. Everything else is like 51.
Maximiliano: I want to I want to ask you now two questions. uphill Ah one is towards uphill focus uphill and your obsession towards the sport because uphill I know you're uphill starting to be become a teacher, a history teacher. What what would happen if you would be like try my hardest to balance both of them? Quite a few fighters have done that.
Jamie: Uh uphill do two things.
Maximiliano: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Jamie: Is that possible? Actually,
Maximiliano: where there's a will, there's a way.
Jamie: Um Dean James being like the best example I can think of. Secondary school teacher, world champion. Same time.
Maximiliano: That's crazy.
Jamie: Joseph Alini, Canadian kickboxer. He works with like uphill special special educational needs and disabilities. He's like a PE teacher for them. World champion at the same time. So, no, you can do it. uphill You've just got to, uphill you know, you got to make a lot of sacrifices and stuff.
Maximiliano: Yeah. There's no time off after after work, basically.
Jamie: No time off.
Maximiliano: Yeah. Like, you know, where there's a will, there's a way.
Jamie: So, if I can balance it, I'm going to balance it. If I can't, I just won't balance it very well.
Maximiliano: Yeah. I know.
Jamie: Banish the thought of me having to do one or the other. Not doing that. You just love teaching and love mind.
Maximiliano: Yeah.
Jamie: So it's it would tear your heart apart probably.
Maximiliano: I' I'd cease to exist. I just disintegrate.
Jamie: No, but that's that that's good.
Maximiliano: So So and this is my my my other question. How how much focus do you reckon is required to become as good as uphill the guys at your gym that are top 10 uphill in the UK?
Jamie: An insane amount. As much focus as you can give at any given point. It's not about like focusing 100% for a week or like focusing 75% for a month. like the the like, pardon me, it's not so much like like there's there's a bit of a move with like lock in culture. So it's like I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna lock in for X period of time and then after after that period of time goes,
Maximiliano: you're just pissing in the wind. You're doing nothing.
Jamie: Yeah. uphill Like it's not being 100% for any given point. It's just being present uphill for 100% of it. You know, you give what you can, uphill nothing, nothing less. You know, uphill I think Conor McGregor said it so well. You got to be a bit gone.
Maximiliano: Yeah.
Jamie: To become that that good, uphill you have to be obsessed. That's what Liam Harrison, another favorite fighter of mine says, but you have to be obsessed with it. Like any point where you can give it time, you give it time.
Maximiliano: Uh I I actually saw a video on on focus and obsession. It was mostly on obsession and like the stages of it. uphill And it's and it's very different to obsessive has to do with a sort of aggression towards you and everything that is not that the thing that you are doing your craft and and I feel yeah it it just if you want to succeed you have to attack it.
Jamie: Yeah.
Maximiliano: You have to attack it. You have to give it everything you have, you know? Like I hated waking up at 5:00 to go to the gym.
Jamie: I did it because I had to, you know, like it's not springing out of bed at 5 in the morning and being like, uphill "Oh, no one wants to wake up at 5 and go for a run." You know what I mean?
Maximiliano: No, you have to. And that's just the way it is. Like you wake up, you think go to the gym, it's freezing cold. You think I could have done with a lion, you know? uphill You do your training. After that, you go for a run, come back home, have a shower, then guess what? Have some food, go back to training. My last fight, I was doing two sessions a day in a run in between. Like, you have to give it everything you can. I I was doing that because I had the time to because I was waiting for a placement.
Jamie: Yeah. I don't want to like get a job or anything. Just on the off chance they'd be like, "Oh, we found your placement." Oh, sorry. I know you hired me last week, but uh
Maximiliano: I'm out. Yeah, cuz like that's just a terrible like uphill what's the phrase?
Jamie: Way to start.
Maximiliano: Yeah. Terrible stuff. uphill Like it looks bad in terms of like job history and it's like I worked here for two weeks, worked here for a day and a half, you know, stuff like that. So I was hired next day I had to hand him my notice because uni family placement just I I just couldn't be asked for that. So I was waiting and waiting and waiting and waiting and waiting and Mark was like you want to fight like yeah
Jamie: and because I had that much time I could attack it all the time.
Maximiliano: So now towards that obsessiveness uphill what sacrifice are you willing to to make for the sport? So would you go on fighting and until basically you can't or would you go for more an educational approach or maybe do the gambling time? I don't know whichever one you you like.
Jamie: This is this is a bit of a mentality giveaway answer, but I think there's something appealing about fighting until, you know, the wheels come off. uphill I don't know why, but that like that's the thing you see and it's just like, yeah, nice. uphill Obviously, it's not a sustainable sustainable practice.
Maximiliano: A lot a lot of the ties don't even reach like their physical prime before they've retired.
Jamie: Yeah.
Maximiliano: They retire at like 26.
Jamie: Why is that?
Maximiliano: Because the training is just insanely difficult. They're running like 20 kilometers a day. Their knees give out. Like they just get beaten up.
Jamie: Like the training's so intense over there.
Maximiliano: Well, and also from so young.
Jamie: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like they're they're fighting by the time they're eight, you know? Like you'll have kids fighting.
Maximiliano: I don't know how you can see that though. Like with elbows or something.
Jamie: Yeah. With elbows. I I I wouldn't be able to see that.
Maximiliano: Yeah. Yeah. But they they they have the coordination of eight year olds. They're not getting hurt.
Jamie: Okay. or uphill well well they're not getting seriously like relatively speaking because they're eight uphill everything hurts uphill yet it's another 8-year-old hitting them. So they're not getting hit like life-changingly hard, uphill you know? They're not they're not having some like uphill prime athlete who's been training this thing for like 20 years booting them in the air.
Maximiliano: Yeah. uphill I I don't know. I still don't feel fully comfortable with that with the idea. May maybe if I see it maybe.
Jamie: I think I think a lot of it a lot of it comes down to like the necessity of them kids fighting as well because you know they're they're making money for their family who are struggling because they're living below the poverty line. uphill Like it's uphill it's a necessity over there. Whereas for us in the west that train Muay Thai and want to fight Muay Thai, it's something we've signed up to. So we're we're privileged in the sense that we can choose to do it. uphill Those kids don't have a don't really have a choice.
Maximiliano: So, would you go to Thailand?
Jamie: Yeah. Yeah. I've wanted to go to Thailand a while.
Maximiliano: Would you go to live there? Would you?
Jamie: Probably not.
Maximiliano: Why not?
Jamie: I like England.
Maximiliano: You like England. I feel This is the first time I've heard somebody say that.
Jamie: I like England. uphill I've never heard somebody say that out loud. I know they everybody does, but like uphill they don't have baked beans in Thailand.
Maximiliano: Fair point though.
Jamie: We probably don't have black pudding over there either, you know.
Maximiliano: That's crazy. That's crazy.
Jamie: England appeals to me.
Maximiliano: Yeah.
Jamie: You know, I've I've been here all my life. uphill I don't know anything different. I don't live in like Bristol. Like my family I was raised in the sticks. So out in the countryside, so uphill it's quite nice. you know, pretty trees, hills, all that, farms. uphill It's it's it's it's nice.
Maximiliano: So, you wouldn't move to Thailand to to go and fight?
Jamie: No, I'd want to fight in Thailand.
Maximiliano: Yeah. But you wouldn't live there?
Jamie: Combat Warriors is based in England, not Thailand. So, I have to I have to stay here.
Maximiliano: This feels like an infomercial, mate. Call us now. All right. uphill Uh Jamie, thank you very much for being on this podcast.
Jamie: Thanks for having me.
Maximiliano: uphill Uh really appreciate it. uphill A lot of information that I did not know anything about. uphill especially it was very interesting the discussion about the different the difference between a martial art and a martial sport or just a sport. uphill I'll uphill I'll uphill actually check it out the the philosophy on on uphill uh on boxing.
Jamie: Yeah. The the main man to look out for that is a writer named Pierce Egan.
Maximiliano: Pierce Egan.
Jamie: Pierce Egan. Pier spelled like piercing something. So P p I E R and then Egan E G A N wrote a lot about Georgian boxes. uphill Not boxes from Georgia, but the period of like the four King Georgees, uphill pre Victorians. Love them. Anyways, uphill um thank you uphill very much for listening again uphill to another week's uphill episode. We are now, again, just got to say it because I'm so proud of it. uphill uh, we are top uphill we're in the top 1% of podcasts.
Jamie: Look at this guy promoting himself.
Maximiliano: It's like a infomercial.
Jamie: It is my podcast, man.
Maximiliano: Um uphill uh but yeah, uphill thank you very much. uphill Please like and subscribe. uphill comment uphill anything that you uphill might like us uphill to talk about uphill in the future or any particular guests that you may want to have. And uphill yeah, please follow us on uphill I don't know anymore what what social medias we are.
Jamie: Instagram, Spotify, all of them.
Maximiliano: Exactly.
Jamie: But follow Combat Warriors first.
Maximiliano: Damn right. you. If I don't get a follow from Combat Warriors, I'll be depressed. Okay, uphill I'm doing the promoting here, sunshine.
Jamie: All right. uphill Anyways, thank you very much uphill for listening and see you next week.
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