Ian Evans: Full Podcast Transcript

Host: Maximiliano Fabres

Guest: Ian Evans

Location: Bristol, UK

Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxJ1hzp1aJw&t=765s

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/episode/6CIDLAd0PnFIX54vaAAUIa?si=57a46b4f74b144fc

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Maximiliano: Hello guys, welcome back to Beyond the Horizon podcast. Uh the podcast where you uh expand your horizons of knowledge. Uh with me today, uh Ian Evans.

Ian: Hi.

Maximiliano: Uh so Ian, uh who are you?

Ian: Um I'm Yeah, Ian. And I do ultra marathons. Well, I have done ultramarathons. Um and yeah, I did quite a big one a couple of weeks ago. Um which I I after five years bashing away at uh trying to succeed at it, I finally finally got it in the bag.

Maximiliano: Woo.

Ian: And I'm feeling very good about it. Go. Come on.

Maximiliano: Um, well, Ian, uh, sorry. Could you please light the candle? Um, yeah, we're basically a cult. So, you that's that's the way we we start you in this podcast. So, um, yeah, Ian, um, basically, so tell us a little bit about, um, how did you get into ultramarathons? Like, what's the what's the big deal here?

Ian: Well, I I've always I've always run since since I was a teenager. Um, and when I was in my 20ies, I had some friends who ran the London Marathon and uh, and I went along to watch them and I thought that was great and they said, "Why don't you do us do it next year with us?" And and I thought, "Okay." So, I did that and that was great. Did a few more marathons in my 30s. Had a bit of time off, I guess, sort of late 30s and 40s when when my wife and I had kids. Uh, and then when they started to become a bit more self-sufficient, I got back into it. And then I I I stumbled across this race called the Spine Race. Um and I and I just look at it thinking, "Oh my god, you know, these people they were doing, you know, the Penine Way, which is, you know, mountainous area in the north of the country in the middle of winter and it was 268 miles over and I was thinking they're all going to die."

Maximiliano: Okay, wait, wait a second. Wait a second. Let's bring it back. What the hell is the spine ultramarathon?

Ian: So yeah, so it's this race they do it they do it every winter in January. Um and it's a long a long distance path called Penine Way goes over about I don't know five mountain ranges and the the competitors and there's about 150 people do it with with rucks sacks with emergency equipment so they don't die if something happens.

Maximiliano: That's good.

Ian: And there are a few checkpoints along the way so they can get some hot food, sleep for a bit of the checkpoints. You've they've got a week to do it. Uh and and yeah, you know, generally about half the people make it um and half don't. And and yeah, and I I just started off the alo you've got a tracker on um while you're doing it. So I hope the world can watch and and I said and they're called the people who watch it called dot watches and that's what I was I was a I I was just watching these people's progress and thinking, "Oh, this is amazing." And they're going all through the night every night. And I I thought, you know, it's it's so terrific. And then I started to think, well, I wonder if I could do that. So I they've got some sort of more entry levelvel distances. So I had a go at those. Sometimes I failed, sometimes I succeeded. When you succeed in something like that, you know, you feel great about yourself. And then finally I thought, okay, I'm going to have a go at the full distance in winter. I had three goes and didn't make it. Um and then the fourth and I what I'd said was going to be the last go was two weeks ago. And and yes, you know, I managed to drag myself over the line and succeed. And you know, I I I couldn't be happier that I've managed that.

Maximiliano: I don't know why, but it doesn't give me the feeling that it's going to be the last one. It just doesn't

Ian: I think it will. No, I I think it will. I I've Yeah, it's just there's nowhere to go upwards from there, you know? It's I've done the most difficult one. It's a big box ticked. It's a big itch scratch. is the the last batch in the scouts one.

Maximiliano: And they're not I mean they're not cheap these things as well, you know. They cost quite a lot to enter.

Ian: Um

Maximiliano: how much does it cost?

Ian: It's about I think it's £1,300.

Maximiliano: Damn.

Ian: Yeah. But there's a lot of there's a lot of infrastructure that they put in to keep people safe. Medics. Yeah.

Maximiliano: Um and that sort of thing and vehicles and

Ian: trackers food.

Maximiliano: Yeah.

Ian: Yeah. All of that. All of that. Okay. So, I will do other stuff. I, you know, I'm not going to sit around, you know, on the sofa reading the racing post getting fat for the rest of my life. I will do, you know, pl there's plenty of things I want to do, things that I've put on hold for the last five years as well. Um, but but yeah, I won't do another spine event.

Maximiliano: Well, I I am running my first uh triathlon sprint uh this year, young April.

Ian: Brilliant. So,

Maximiliano: I mean, that's they're really hard, you know, the the different muscles that you use.

Ian: Oh my god. Yeah. Like, I've tried it. Um I tried to switch uh once. So I did half an hour running. I didn't do it by kilometers, just did it by the the time. Half an hour running and then I went into cycling. Awful. Like it's just it's just awful. Uh and then I did swimming and then I went to cycling.

Maximiliano: Yeah.

Ian: The worst one is is the bicycle into the run.

Maximiliano: I know.

Ian: And and and it is those muscles there cramp up horribly and you end up running like this

Maximiliano: like Yeah. I like the the the the Yeah. The

Ian: what do you call them? Uh the

Maximiliano: spaghetti feel,

Ian: but all you can do is carry on. And it does it does go after about half a mile.

Maximiliano: Half a mile.

Ian: Yeah.

Maximiliano: Okay. Okay. So, you've done them before?

Ian: I've done a few. Yeah.

Maximiliano: A few. Oh,

Ian: done four.

Maximiliano: Have you done uh Iron Man?

Ian: No. I I

Maximiliano: Is that the next one?

Ian: Part of me would love to, but you know, I don't know. I'm 58 and I I just think, you know, I think there's a there's a limit on these things really. And I, you know, I I think it's too late to be starting Iron Man now.

Maximiliano: Is there? Is there?

Ian: Okay.

Maximiliano: I've got a list of things I want to do.

Ian: Oh, good.

Maximiliano: And and Iron Man is not it.

Ian: All good. Good. Again. Okay. So, let's bring it back a little bit. So, um just before you start to go crazy on ultramarathons, what were you doing? So, like what do you do for work and so on? Uh I I

Maximiliano: are you a normal guy? That's the question basically.

Ian: Yeah, I I've worked for you know banks and building society as I started off in marketing for 15 years for banks. Ended up in IT security which is what I do now currently with an insurance company. Um and yeah. Yeah, it's normally I live just outside Bristol. Um I've got two children both grown up now and doing their own thing. Um I I mean I have been involved in the scouts. I mean and that's probably not that's probably is a bit connected actually. I I think that helped me get back into outdoorsy stuff when when the kids were you know becoming you know of that age.

Maximiliano: I got to say I was a scout for many many years. Yeah. Many many years. Yeah. I don't know about 15 something like that. 12 15.

Ian: It's great. I mean I mean

Maximiliano: it's amazing. Oh my goodness. Yes. It's the most beautiful thing you can do.

Ian: And you know, and I'm sure not all scout troops are amazing, but and I think around, you know, around the Bristol area, you know, there's a they spend a lot of time out in the countryside, you know, doing doing I mean, just, you know, fantastic

Maximiliano: outdoorsy things.

Ian: I got to say, uh, when I came to England, because I lived here for like one year when I was like 13, you know, I lived in in Chile, uh, the whole time. I uh I thought they were like a little bit of a whiff cuz like in Chile at least the the scouts group that that I was in we did like activities for the whole night and like we did like this like uh I know huge activities dangerous activities as well and so mainly because the group is run and still run by uh university students. Yeah. there's no real adult there. Uh so yeah, and and I don't know,

Maximiliano: but that's what I'm saying.

Ian: Coming here, it depends who's running the troop

Maximiliano: because yeah, you know, if it if it's being run by someone who just wants to whittle spoons and, you know, make posters or they then that's going to be no good. But there's plenty of troops that aren't like, you know, the troop that I helped with um just outside Bristol, you know, we were doing all the sort of stuff you described. Yeah. You know, we we were out camping every month throughout the year. You know, we've camped in a foot of snow.

Maximiliano: Yeah.

Ian: We've been clearing a foot of snow from a field so that we could camp there, you know. That's

Maximiliano: Damn. Okay. Okay. I rate that. I rate that. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. What group is it? Just to give them a shout out.

Ian: Barington and Rington. It's called First Barington and Rington Scout Troop. Yeah. The best.

Maximiliano: Go. Let's go. Any any shout out? No. Don't worry. All right, it's actually quite late, so please know. Um, okay. So, um, and what actually made you not feel so fulfilled that actually led you then into going for ultramarathons because it's not normal like it's not a

Ian: Well, but I think it's bit the other way. I think once I started to get a bit of time back, you know, once once my children didn't need me, you know, to be with them all the time, didn't want me to be with them all the time, you know, I was just dad. So it it gave me more time and I think I think it's quite easy to assume when you I don't know in your 40s that all of that physical stuff is is with from the past, you know, because I I'd run marathons in my 20s

Maximiliano: and I you know I put on a bit of weight. I mean I wasn't excessively fat but you know I I wasn't anything like as fit as I had been in my 20s and the beginning of my 30s but I you know I I had you know I entered the Bath Half Marathon and did all right. Um, I ended the Milton Kees marathon and did all right. And I suddenly thought, actually, I can still do this stuff, you know, and if I train a bit more, you know, perhaps I can do it a bit quicker. So, I was doing that stuff. I was walking with the scouts, you know, we were going off and doing weekend, you know, where we're hiking over Dartmore for two days. And and then I and then I stumbled across this spine race thing. And and the first year I just watched the people at the front and I thought, you know, these people are absolute heroes. But the second year I started watching the people at the back and I was thinking they look like normal people who've just really taken it seriously and thrown themselves into it. I think I could be like them. So it it was their inspiration and the fact that I had time and the inclination to to get back into doing some, you know, some extraordinary stuff.

Maximiliano: Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. So it was basically like a call from like I don't know the the world.

Ian: I think it was a realization that I could that you know I mean

Maximiliano: that they were normal people.

Ian: Yeah. That that that you didn't need to be Usain Bolt in order to do extraordinary physical things. You know we can

Maximiliano: David Gogins or something.

Ian: Yeah. We we can all do things you know that you know you you know and I'm diabetic you know and and it would be quite easy to think oh I can't do that because I'm diabetic but you know you need to focus on you know it's cliche but you need to focus on what you can do not what you can't do it you know and so I was like you know someone in my late 40s who'd been diabetic for you know 30 odd years and I was thinking actually I really think I can do this I really think I can do 268 miles on the Penine way in the middle of winter you know and and if if you If you plan

Maximiliano: when you put it like that, it's just like who the does this man

Ian: but you can, you know, it's amazing what is if you set your mind to it and spend a year training. It's amazing what you can do.

Maximiliano: Oh my god. Yeah, it it I mean I I am a big believer on on setting your mind uh into something and then just achieving it no matter what. So I I do believe that for sure. I think as a society these days, I think we set our sights too low, you know, we say, "Oh, you know, I'm going to build up and I'm going to do a park run." You know, park runs are brilliant. And I think it's great.

Ian: Are you Who says that?

Maximiliano: Oh my god.

Ian: People have couched to 5K apps on their phone. You know, we are setting our sites too low. You know, anyone can do a hub.

Maximiliano: Anyone can do a marathon. You know, we can all do absolutely extraordinary stuff and we should. you know, it's not dangerous. There's the dangerous thing is, you know, ending up 20 stone, you know, sat on a sofa, you know, unable to walk more than 10 yards without getting out of breath. That's dangerous. You know, going off and, you know, and going up mountains and doing stuff at sea, you know, that's the safe stuff as far as I'm concerned because it keeps you healthy and it's going to mean you when you're in your 80s, you will still be healthy and and mobile.

Ian: Yeah. No, no, absolutely. No idea what 20 stone is, but I'll I'll agree on that.

Maximiliano: A lot.

Ian: Uh yeah, like kilos. Do you have any?

Maximiliano: Uh I know it's like 13 kilos per stone. So it's like that's a Oh my god.

Ian: Damn, that's a lot. Yeah. Okay.

Maximiliano: You know, as a society, we're getting heavier, you know.

Ian: Yeah. Yeah. Very very heavy as well.

Maximiliano: Yeah. That's actually a big uh big uh difference. I used to live in Germany

Ian: and like the amount of like fit like 80 year olds that you come to it's just amazing.

Maximiliano: Yeah.

Ian: Uh well here I have seen maybe like three

Maximiliano: really

Ian: and yeah maybe three and I've been living here for like now three years in total and yeah no it's it's it's just crazy to me.

Maximiliano: Yeah. Um but yeah well um so what you you actually talked about the your uh diabetic condition condition is it called diabetic condition is that is that

Ian: my diabetes

Maximiliano: your diabetes. Okay. Yeah. Um so yeah when when did uh diabetes become part of your life and how did you like think about diabetes when you when you had it?

Ian: So I was 14

Maximiliano: or 40 so Oh okay a long time ago.

Ian: Okay.

Maximiliano: Yeah. So 44 years ago.

Ian: Okay. Fair.

Maximiliano: Um I became diabetic. Uh I don't to be honest you know 44 years ago. I don't remember too much from before that really. So for me it's it's like I've had it you know all of my adult life and and

Maximiliano: I gotta say there's no much thinking in in at 14 especially as a No worries but yeah

Ian: yes I mean you know and diabetes has changed a lot over the years but you know I think I always managed it reasonably well. It probably made me a bit more self-sufficient um mentally because I always felt right from the start I need to look after myself here. I never relied on anybody else to to look after it for me. And and then it's over the last five years there's been more changes for how diabetes are managed than all of the years before that because you know we now have these things you know wearable tech.

Maximiliano: Um so here I've I've got a a a continuous glucose monitor. So that tells me what my blood sugar is and

Ian: you're dying or not basically. Well, it just just just tells you I've got a you know there's a reader there and that will that will tell me what what my blood sugar reading is and whether I'm within the right correct range and then next to that is an insulin pump that sort of reacts to that and you know based on what my blood sugar is doing that will inject insulin into you know the body and and so together they were a bit like a pancreas. It's it's not quite the silver bullet that it sounds like. Um but it's it's it's huge progress compared to you know the the you know 39 years before that when when you're you know constantly injecting

Maximiliano: um insulin and and measuring your blood sugar by you know getting a bit of blood and putting it onto a machine.

Ian: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I

Maximiliano: Yeah. That that's a pain in the ass. But you know you just checking on a device is you know is really easy. So it's made a real difference. And I'm not, you know, I did used to run marathons before all of this tech happened. Um, but it, you know, it's a lot, it is a lot easier

Ian: when you can just look and also, you know, when you're at the top of a mountain and it's minus 6 and there's 45 mph winds coming in and it's snowing and Yeah. trying to get some blood out, you know, or, you know, because you can't just inject, you know, you you have to inject into an area like this or this, which means you have to expose them.

Maximiliano: Yeah.

Ian: Um, and you really don't want to be doing that at the top of a mountain in the middle of winter. That that's not a very safe. Whereas with this, you know, that's already connected. So, I can just say, you know, inject a couple of units there.

Maximiliano: So, it's all become easier, you know, which is fantastic.

Ian: What I'm hearing is that you're basically a cyborg.

Maximiliano: There's certainly an element of that. Yeah.

Ian: Yeah. Are you a cyborg?

Maximiliano: Yeah.

Ian: Yeah. Am I Oh my god. I'm interviewing my the first cyborg.

Maximiliano: Your first cyborg with the podcast at least. Um I know fair enough. So um so you never actually like thought it as a as a issue uh let's say to towards your uh your running or your fitness and so on. And can you tell me actually what types are they and what do they actually mean because I have absolutely no idea.

Ian: So there's type one and there's type two. So I I

Maximiliano: type three.

Ian: I I've I've never heard of type three. No. Somebody mentioned that the other day and I no I no just just types one and two

Maximiliano: or or not in this country.

Ian: It's probably because of me.

Maximiliano: Yeah, I asked. Yeah. Okay.

Ian: So So type one is is what happens you know basically it normally happens in early childhood or teenage years when there are hormones flowing around and it's it's an autoimmune error where accidentally the body wipes out the insulin producing cells in the pancreas. And so at that point you can't produce your own insulin. So assuming it gets spotted quickly enough that you don't die, you then go into insulin injections for the rest of your life. Type two is generally more brought on by lifestyle. Um you know possibly by stress, probably most commonly by just being out of shape, being overweight and and that's basically the body driving those insulin producing cells too hard. um and and the body being unable to produce enough insulin to to cope with that. So that's normally treated normally through pills in you rather than through injections and it is reversible type two you know if

Maximiliano: that's what I've heard. Okay. I thought Okay. I thought there was like a lack of insulin, like a complete lack, a too much insulin, and then it was like uh basically the the medium end.

Ian: No, there there isn't a too much insulin

Maximiliano: no

Ian: version. No, not Well, not one that I've heard of. No.

Maximiliano: Okay. Maybe I'm Yeah. Yeah. Sorry.

Ian: So, so yeah, type one or type two. And And they tend to be quite different. And I mean, you know, somebody said to me, you know, some medical person said, he said, "Oh, you type ones, you're all

Maximiliano: you all do all this sort of exercise stuff." You know, there there are some unbelievably fit type ones.

Ian: Um, so so this this event I do or did the spine race. Um,

Maximiliano: there's a guy called Chris Cop who he was also on the start line of the event that I was on the other day. He he was for me favorite to win it and he's a type one diabetic. He um he ran a couple of years ago when he he won the summer version of the spine race and before that a couple of months before that he ran the London marathon in two hours 29. Now that's you know that's international standard you know that's yeah that that's professional athlete.

Ian: I work in a sports bar so I do know that. So yeah, so there are some

Maximiliano: 229.

Ian: Yeah, there there are some very very

Maximiliano: close to like Olympics.

Ian: It's like 219 or 210 is like

Maximiliano: 210 I think is Olympic level, isn't it?

Ian: Yeah. And he's in his 40s as well. So imagine what he could have done in his 20.

Maximiliano: Yeah. So So I'm saying the the type ones type one diabetics there were some very fit. you get some professional athletes, professional footballers, professional rugby players who who happen to be type one. It it it does. There's a an amusing theory I heard uh and I think the person who said it was joking, but you I understand the joke was that that actually it can be an advantage being diabetic in in an endurance event because a common thing people get wrong, normal people, is that they don't eat enough

Ian: and and then they, you know, well, they you say they they blow up or they bonk. basically they run out of calories and they have to stop. Um whereas a diabetic you know you have to eat. So you're just eating you know all the time you know every hour you're shoveling something down even if you don't feel like it and that is an advantage you know because you have to do that

Maximiliano: to even complete these things you if you think oh I don't need food. No no you really do need food

Ian: you know you're doing you know my watch told me my you know people aim for 10,000 steps a day. Yeah. My watch told me after this event two weeks ago that I was averaging 110,000 steps a day for the seven days that I was doing it.

Maximiliano: That that's crazy.

Ian: That that is actually crazy. What is that like a month's worth?

Maximiliano: But it's a lot.

Ian: A month and a half. That's so

Maximiliano: That's a month and a half.

Ian: It's like trying So to do that without fuel

Maximiliano: for every day you basically take 10 days.

Ian: Well, 11. Yeah.

Maximiliano: And and 11 at target. I mean, most most people don't make that 10,000 steps a day.

Ian: So anyway, it's a lot of exercise.

Maximiliano: You did half a quarter.

Ian: Half a quarter.

Maximiliano: So you're you're doing about 45 miles a day over mountain ranges in the middle of winter.

Ian: That sounds

Maximiliano: with a pack.

Ian: That That's That sounds so lovely. You should do it. You should do watch next year and then you'll get the bug and then you train for two years and then you do it.

Maximiliano: You'd love it.

Ian: Okay. Okay. Okay. I I I might do. I might do.

Maximiliano: So, uh what made you actually go all in? Like what what was a decision? Uh was there a decision point? Was somebody pushing you? Uh and how did your wife actually react to it?

Ian: I think it was just it was just at the point where I thought I could. So I I did there's a southern version which is 108 miles.

Maximiliano: I that was the the first one I tried was in winter and there was it was a stinker of a year for weather. It was

Ian: what is it with winter you guys go in winter like why don't there is a summer version but it's not nearly as popular.

Maximiliano: What why isn't it that's so dumb?

Ian: It's because it's hard because it's such an achievement. said. Anyway, so I I I had to go in this winter 108 mile failed. Went back in the summer, did it, and that that way I I could see that I could do the distance. So I went back the following winter, did it um and then from there I thought, okay, well, if I can do that, then I can I'll have a go at the full distance, failed twice in that, went back and did the northern section, which is more 160 miles, and did did all right in that. Did quite well. Um and that made me think, look, you know, I really can do this. There's just so many things you have to get right just turning up. But you there's about hundred different elements of it that you have to get spot on. You know, do you do you know blisters and your pack and what you're eating and what you're drinking and your electrolytes.

Maximiliano: Okay, let's start. Let's go then fully into that because I have absolutely no idea. I'm just running a sprint with pure mentality on April because I I haven't really exercised a lot.

Ian: and those those smaller distances you you know you can get through you know a half marathon you can get through just on force of personality you're going to say I don't care if you know if I get blisters I don't care if everything hurts I'm just going to keep going for you know two hours or whatever

Maximiliano: that's what I think like at least a sprint uh which is uh what 10 10k no 5k uh running uh about 20 miles cycling and 750

Ian: need to swimming. It's about 3 hours.

Maximiliano: Yeah,

Ian: that's doable by just mentality in my opinion. I'm regularly fit and

Maximiliano: yeah,

Ian: but but like

Maximiliano: but yeah, once you're into, you know, two or three days, um you have to get everything right.

Ian: Okay, so yeah, let's go fully into that. Uh what is the first thing that you have to actually think about?

Maximiliano: Well, okay. Well, let's say water because you know, let's say that's the the biggest staple of life. you know, you have to be drinking. Um, so, and in fact, I mean, it sounds so obvious, but I think two of my failures to finish in big events are down to not drinking enough. And I I thought I had chronic back problem, but with hindsight, actually, I think it was kidney problem. I think I had I had debilitating kidney pain two events in a row. Um, and I didn't make the connection until a year later when I I had a food poisoning and it hurt my kidneys and I thought, "Oh my god, I know that pain. That's the that's what I felt kidney kidney." And and so I was looking stuff up. I know my kidney functions all right because I've had it tested,

Ian: but I think that's just dehydration. That was, you know, I was I was driving the body hard and I wasn't giving it the water it needed to um, you know, to to clean itself out. So, so yeah, first thing is water. You know, you've got to drink a lot. You know, you don't wait till you're thirsty. You're just constantly, you know, getting water down.

Maximiliano: Okay.

Ian: And and then after that, fuel. So, you know, you've got to get the calories down.

Maximiliano: And things I don't know what like how it goes the actual race. So, like, okay, you start and then you take the first sip right after. Like, what's the what's the deal?

Ian: Well, I know not immediately, but the I know some people are very organized about it and they they will say there there was a yeah there was there was a woman who won a race in the Arctic. Um oh by the way the the difference between men and women is disappearing on the really long distance stuff. It's it's equaling up there are women you know winning highly competitive events beating all of the men. you know, not always,

Maximiliano: right?

Ian: Not 50%, but it's it's it's evening up and it's really interesting what's happening in in the ultra scene. So, anyway, there was a there's a can't if she's Swedish or Norwegian, but anyway, she won an overall art.

Maximiliano: It had to be Norwegian or Swedish. I just knew it like as soon as she said it, I was like, "Yeah, she's Norwegian."

Ian: She sets an alarm on her watch for 20 minutes and at the first one, she has some water. At the second one, she has some food. And at the third one, I think she has an electrolyte pill. Um, and then so she does this.

Maximiliano: What the hell is an electrolyte?

Ian: Well, just like salt, something like that. The salt and and the other sort of minerals that that you really blast through when you're doing this. If if you don't have salt in these things, you get cramp.

Maximiliano: Yeah.

Ian: Um, so yeah, you have to be taking salt on. Um, and you know, and I don't know, I'm no expert on the other stuff, but you know,

Maximiliano: so I'm guessing those three are the main components of the ultramarathon, like the things that you have to take into consideration.

Ian: Yeah. Okay. So, food and and that's really just about calories. You you you are not hungry in these things at all. You you you it it hurts to force food down, but you have to do it. Um because if you don't if you don't keep the stomach full, the body diverts blood. And I'm not making this up. This is medically, you know, sound. The if if you're running and walking fast and you're not eating, the body diverts the blood flow away from the stomach to the muscles. Yeah.

Maximiliano: Because that's where it's needed. And that means the stomach shrinks. And that means when you do go to eat, having left it for two or three hours, you just throw it straight back up.

Ian: Really? Yeah. And then you can't eat and then you're in trouble because if you're not taking any fuel in, you know, your body can it can deplete your glycogen stores. Um

Maximiliano: that's easy. That's in like the first half an hour.

Ian: Yeah. But then after that, you're going to be breaking down muscle and fat and that's no fun.

Maximiliano: Yeah. And that's mostly muscle as well.

Ian: Yeah. Yeah. And you know that you're really going to feel that and you're probably going to stop a couple of hours after that.

Maximiliano: I do I do got to say I fast once a a week. So, it's like I I I always like feel the change between like uh like nothing to autophagy. Like I can feel the change

Ian: straight up. It just feels completely different. Uh at one point you're like about to like puke and then you just like suddenly like feel released of that tension. So yeah, I feel I feel it might be like that.

Maximiliano: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You might even recognize the feeling. So So yeah. So, you have to fuel, you have to drink, and you have to replace salt. Um, and you know, you may as well take a more general electrolyte pill is my view. That's what I do. Um, because, you know, people talk about other, I don't know, magnesium and potassium. not my area to be honest, but I leave it to other people to, you know, so yeah, I I probably take an electrolyte pill, you know, two or three a day when I'm competing in stuff just because also, you know, you're not generally eating a wellbalanced diet during this thing. You know, you are forcing down, you know, carbohydrates mostly. Um, so, you know, you're going to need some other stuff. So, I'm guessing uh on the race. So, like when you start I don't know if if the gun goes does the gun like tend to be one of those sort of loud halo with a with a button on it.

Ian: Damn it. Okay. No. Then I won't compete in the race now. Uh no. Okay. So, when the alarm goes I don't know. Yeah. Alarm alarm goes. What are you thinking? Are you thinking oh got to take my electronics? You got to take my water.

Maximiliano: No, you're not going to be thinking of that for, you know, for for an hour. I don't suppose

Ian: um you're you're thinking about the fact the starts are generally pretty muddy, so you don't want to fall over and break your leg within the first 10 meters because that would be embarrassing. But

Maximiliano: does that happen?

Ian: Yeah.

Maximiliano: Does that happen a lot? Like if

Ian: No, because everyone's careful. Everyone sets off at a run. Even I mean someone like me, you know, I I will certainly be walking more than I'm running. Yeah. It's a fast walk, but uh but you you sort of feel you have to run at the start because this camera is pointing at you and and you have to pretend at least that you're going to run the whole thing even if you're not. Um so yeah, you try not to slip up. You're you're trying to sort of uh smile off of the cameras because there there's lots of film cameras. They make a daily film of this thing as you're going around. So that which is quite fun.

Maximiliano: Um

Ian: I'm sure it is. I'm sure it is. So is it is it more like a walking type of thing more than a running

Maximiliano: by the end? Yes. I mean the the the top 10 people

Ian: will will be running. Yeah. And they're going for position. The the the people more at the back. You'll probably run a fair bit on the first day, some on the second day. By the time you get to the third day, there's not many people running from the third day onwards.

Maximiliano: And then what happens the next?

Ian: Well, you have to carry on walking. Yeah.

Maximiliano: Yeah. Uh for four days. Yes.

Ian: Yeah. So the the time for the full distance the time limit is seven days you know you know to the minute. So it starts 8:00 Sunday morning

Maximiliano: until 8:00 the following Sunday morning.

Ian: What is the shortest they have been doing it? Like they've been

Maximiliano: they've brought in some 50 mile distances now. So they call them the sprint the spine sprint south and north and they're both about 50 miles. Uh, but what what how how oh my god I don't have the words for it. Um, what is the shortest time that somebody has done uh the actual aline

Ian: the the full thing?

Maximiliano: Yeah.

Ian: So the record is held by a guy called Jack Scott who's amazing. Um I don't know but I'd guess it's probably about four days maybe a bit less. four days.

Maximiliano: Yeah. But to break the record,

Ian: it's it's it's actually not enough to be a supremely brilliant athlete. It also has to be the right year because if it's a really cold year,

Maximiliano: then there's a lot of mud and bog.

Ian: Well, no, no, but but it's beneficial. If if it's cold, it's faster because all the bogs

Maximiliano: freeze.

Ian: Okay.

Maximiliano: So, you're not winging through mud. You're just you're just gliding over the top of it. So, those are the fast years. Um the years where Yeah. I mean, ideally where there isn't a lot of snow, but it's cold enough to freeze all of the ground. That That's your fast year.

Ian: Okay. Okay. Okay. I'm still thinking about this guy that does like 65 miles on average on a day.

Maximiliano: Yeah, they're they're they're supreme athletes. They are incredible.

Ian: Did he sleep? Like what's the what's the deal?

Maximiliano: No, but no, they'll they'll probably grab 20 minutes here and there. They'll probably over the course of the whole thing they might have 90 minutes sleep.

Ian: Okay, so that is okay. My next question then what's a sleep schedule there? Like what's the what's the deal

Maximiliano: for me?

Ian: Yeah. Go on.

Maximiliano: So So there are five checkpoints along the way. Four of those have beds in them.

Ian: Fifth one doesn't. Fifth one just has a floor.

Maximiliano: Okay.

Ian: So the the the plan my plan is to is to have probably two hours ideally two hours sleep at each one.

Maximiliano: Um but sometimes you know you're so tired you have to get some sleep in between those. Um, and

Ian: well, in the wilderness.

Maximiliano: No. Well, I not in winter because it's too cold, you know. Two weeks ago, you know, it was it was minus temperatures the whole time. So, you sleep in strange places. There are two public toilets along the way and they are absolutely, you know, where everybody sleeps. And then the and the final place where people sleep is a church in in there's a village called Burn

Ian: which is the final point the final village before you go over the final mountain range.

Maximiliano: Everybody everybody goes in there and they they they deliberately leave the doors open for for the spine races. And in fact, so this is this is, you know, right up in the northeast and the the bishop of Durham, who's a woman, uh, she actually took part in one of the events this year. And that so that that's

Ian: Wait, as in she ran she run the whole thing?

Maximiliano: I think she did the the sprint north. Yeah. So, and and this is this is that is so honestly people get obsessive, you know, people love the race. I mean I mean not not everyone loves the race. There are people who wear it goes through their garden and they're not very keen. But a lot of the people on the people throw up in their houses.

Ian: There's there's a a lady called Annie in a village called Giggill who invites everyone into her kitchen and serves them soup.

Maximiliano: Oh my god.

Ian: There's a lady called Helen at a place called Hornstead Farm who has an outbuilding that she devotes to. There's a guy called Raster Ralph who sits outside barbecuing all the time and and as the runners come through he'll give them a bit of meat off the barbecue and offer them a can of Stella and you know it's the characters.

Maximiliano: These people are amazing. They call them spine angels. Absolutely amazing people. Clove Lodge Barn um Withers Hill. Uh they are incredible, you know, and people leave tubs of sweets out. It's

Ian: so nice.

Maximiliano: There's a there's a cafe called Nikki's Food Bar and Nikki is a big supporter. It's it's it's an institution up there and and some people absolutely love it, you know, and and we the competitors love them.

Ian: I'm sure you do. I'm sure you do. So, okay. So what what are are the major stepbacks that you actually had when uh when starting to compete uh mainly?

Maximiliano: Um well it's you don't always realize why you failed the the reason why you think you like I was talking about you know thinking having this back pain where actually it was dehydration. It took me probably a year to work out

Ian: why why I dropped out. Mhm.

Maximiliano: Um there was another time when um in fact this is this is not very long ago. This is six months ago. I had to go at the summer one the full distance and I I got I made it 163 miles and then I thought I was out of time.

Ian: And I stabbed myself twice in the foot with walking poles and you not deliberately. I mean, I'm sure because of the sleep deprivation, but

Maximiliano: you're a real mess. You know, you know, you know, I think of myself as a reasonably sharp guy, but you know, after four days of going through the night every night, um, your brain is mush. So, and basically, I thought I thought I was four hours behind schedule and I wasn't going to make it and I dropped out.

Ian: Um, and I went home, you know, and a few days later I sat down and worked out the maths and I thought, "No, I had loads of time." Well, I didn't have loads of time, but I did have time to complete it, you know. So, you have in your preparation, you have to prepare yourself to not have to make decisions, you know. Everything has to be planned in advance.

Maximiliano: You you can't rely on your own brain and everything has to be written down. Um otherwise, you're going to get it wrong. You're going to be stupid. You know, that's actually how I live my life as a as a general. I'm not kidding.

Ian: I basically trust I trust myself at certain points.

Maximiliano: Yeah. when I I don't know like when I fix my schedule for example uh for a day or um I don't know as as a general thing like when I never lose my keys because I always trust myself when I put the the like uh my kiss somewhere.

Ian: Yeah.

Maximiliano: I kind of like can trace it back. But ​​__

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Ian: But I feel this is completely different like once once you're like sleepd deprived for like four days. It's it's planning you know meticulous preparation of every single aspect you know that you have to know where everything is in you in your pack you know yeah

Maximiliano: so like you you literally cannot function basically you can run that's about

Ian: it's easy to make mistakes

Maximiliano: easy to make mistakes

Ian: yeah and and also you know it's it's you know you might be in you know that level of tiredness and sleep deprivation it just messes with you you know you you you you can be quite despondent. I'm a very positive person, but I you know I had a moment of absolute despair um in in this event with I was I was on the section between a village called Bellingham and a village called Bernest and and I was horribly sleepd deprived. I was literally falling asleep every step and I was, you know, I was falling into the bushes and luckily I was with three people who who looked after me and and they wouldn't let me stop.

Maximiliano: Or, you know, every now and again I said, "Look, just give me give me three minutes on the floor." So I just lie down, fall asleep, and then three minutes later say, "All right, Ian, let's go." So, and off we

Ian: Yeah. And they kept me going and and um you know, I I was in the you know, the sloth of despair at that point.

Maximiliano: Um but I it was the middle of the night but but I knew that if I and in fact the they kept me going. We got to Berness got some food and then we went in the church

Ian: got a couple of hours sleep on the floor between the pews and the church and daylight happened and suddenly you know I'm fine absolutely right as rain you know for the rest of the event and and I knew that was going to be the case as well.

Maximiliano: Um but you know when when you're tired and you're falling asleep that's tough tough toughest I've known I would say you know in life is is trying to continue to function when all your body wants to do you and it's not even you know it doesn't become it's not a choice literally every time I stepped on this leg it just collapsed and every you know I was I come my eyes are just closing themselves you try no no stay open stay open it's become you know automatic. It's really hard but not impossible.

Ian: Well, you're living proof.

Maximiliano: Yeah.

Ian: Yeah.

Maximiliano: Well done. Again,

Ian: I tell you what made the real difference. So, I was with this fantastic South African guy called Yako and he kept trying to come up with ideas for how to keep me going because he he I mean I I didn't met him four days previously, you know, he was he was a new friend, but I mean wonderful that he cares so much. But in the end, he had he said he said, "I've got another idea. He has some little earbuds. He said, "Just try this." He said, "Put those in your ears." And he has some music on his phone. And he put on a 1980s compilation. Um, quite loud. And suddenly, boom. It was, "Wow, I'm completely awake." It's like, "Oh, oh my god." Okay, let's go. You know, it it was transformational the the, you know, music.

Maximiliano: Um, yeah, it wasn't even any of my favorite 1980s songs, I have to say.

Ian: Oh, what? More Phil Collins really.

Maximiliano: But it really

Ian: it really woke me up.

Maximiliano: Um, and yeah, that that made a huge difference. That probably saw me through the race.

Ian: Okay.

Maximiliano: And that was enough to get me to Berness and then Berness sleep in the church um daylight and I was absolutely fine from then on. thing is um what I'm trying to I'm trying to grasp basically the mentality uh that that builds basically the the the person who actually finishes the race

Ian: and it feels very similar to speaking to an ex-marine.

Maximiliano: Well, I used to want to become a marine. Um, and I actually applied here in the UK.

Ian: I have British surprise.

Maximiliano: Um, but it it it does feel like that. It's like the same kind of mentality and and quite a few of those people go in and do the spine race. You you get a lot of ex-servicemen, a lot of ex special forces.

Ian: Yeah. people

Maximiliano: going in for it to, you know, get a bit of the adrenaline buzz that they used to get

Ian: in the forces.

Maximiliano: Um, so yeah, it's it's basically this relentless pursuit of a goal and nothing else and just basically forcing yourself to do it somehow.

Ian: Yeah.

Maximiliano: But it but it's also the preparation, you know. I mean like I say you know anyone in the world could go in and stand on that start line and if they have not spent you know six month unless they were doing stuff like that anyway

Ian: they will not finish you know it it is not enough to be determined and even to be fit you know it's you you you need to be specifically prepared for that you know you need to spend probably a year you know assuming you have the you know a year wouldn't be good enough to to get fit.

Maximiliano: Just running.

Ian: Yeah.

Maximiliano: Yeah. And with the pack, I mean, I because I think I think I've been strong enough to do it for a few years, but I think I haven't been tough enough up here

Ian: until perhaps the last six months

Maximiliano: really.

Ian: And I also think I didn't have the the core strength and flexibility as well. And you know, and that may be because I'm getting older that I needed a bit more. I needed to build that for because your core flexibility is disco. I did a lot of Tai Chi in the last year and I think that made a real difference.

Maximiliano: Really? Yeah. I mean, as well as all the other stuff.

Ian: Yeah.

Maximiliano: But um yeah, I if you're carrying a pack, you're running, you know, with a 10 kilogram pack for some quite long distances, you know, that's quite a quite a a load

Ian: on your body and skeleton and everything. So is it 40 40 pound 20

Maximiliano: 10 kilogram 10 sorry oh 10 kilogram

Ian: mine was that some people managed to get managed to get it lighter than that some probably a little bit more but including water and food mine was 10 kg

Maximiliano: yeah the thing is I've I've done like a 7h hour walk with snow and all of that in the south of Chile in summer though

Ian: still like at 5° summer so it's not great

Maximiliano: But um yeah, that that was like 35 kilos or something like that. I was hitchhiking. I was hitchhiking and it was like my first hitchhike alone.

Ian: Yeah.

Maximiliano: Like over

Ian: Yeah.

Maximiliano: I had I had an axe, mate. I don't I don't know what the I thought of. Uh but yeah, I had like a lot of stuff that I didn't need and I had 35 kilos of meat and just like I was just determined to make it through.

Ian: Uh and then well I did. Yeah.

Maximiliano: Um oh my god, it's nothing in comparison.

Ian: 35 kg is a lot.

Maximiliano: Yeah. But mate, that's that's yeah, it's uh I mean I think it's still one of the biggest accomplishments that I have done, but that's about it. Um so I I want to know what your feeling was when when you actually cross that line. So yeah, the the the Finnish.

Ian: Take me take me through the like before them uh before like when you start seeing the finish line.

Maximiliano: Yeah.

Ian: The Finnish is a pub. It's a it's called the Border Hotel in a town called well a village called Kirk Yetum in Scotland.

Maximiliano: Okay.

Ian: Um and traditionally you go in there and you touch you either touch the corner of the wall or you kiss the corner of the wall. I touched I'm not a I'm not a very kissy buildings kind of a person.

Maximiliano: You problem. You kissed it, mate.

Ian: It's all right. It's all they take photographs. You can see me touching it.

Maximiliano: No worries. No judgment, mate. No.

Ian: So, I'ic d'd been traveling with with some other people. This South African guy, Yako, who who was a he he'd sort of held back a bit, so he was he was out of the picture. I've been traveling with a couple of women as well, Anna and Fern. Um, but we'd sort of got a bit separated as well. So I they weren't far behind, but I basically I was on my own. It was late. It was 4:00 in the morning um a week ago, last Sunday.

Maximiliano: Um and I have to Okay, it was cold. It It was so cold it was icy. So and and in fact, so there's this last bit of road that you come over. I was a bit bored of it all, I have to say. And so I was going far. I was walking fast because I just wanted it to be over because it had been going on for seven days and I was I was I just wanted it to stop. So I was I was really pushing out on this and not spotting that actually the robe was icy in one place. And so at one point I went to sort of push off with my foot and went face onto a tarmac here and my sort of ples underneath me and I was thinking it was a really heavy fall um right onto my face and I thought is there any blood here? I was thinking you know and somebody said after that had a bit of a bit I thought have I broken my nose?

Ian: Oh amazingly I was all okay. Um there was nothing broken not even the poles

Maximiliano: good.

Ian: So, and that was about like 300 meters before the finish. Um, but thankfully out of because there were quite a lot of people there. I thought 4:00 in the morning there's going to be nobody there. There's going to be some there'll be a photographer.

Maximiliano: But actually, there was about 30 people there which which I was amazed by. And I didn't know any of them. I I thought you why you all laugh, you know? I was very very touching, very moving that that that they were there. And there's all houses around there. So, no, you can't they can't make too much noise. It's just it starts quiet clapping. It was on you.

Ian: Um, so I mean how it's a relief that it was over and it felt like the end of a long journey, not just the 268 mile journey I'd just done,

Maximiliano: but actually the five years leading up to that. Um, and a lot of sacrifices, you know, a lot of money, a lot of time away from the family, you know, a lot of people getting a bit bored of me doing this sort of stuff. um it had become you know a bit of an obsession and that just the fact that you know I could now you know I was free to get on with the rest of my life you know I the irony is I will probably go back and volunteer they have a whole army of volunteers

Ian: helping people and and the best people to be the volunteers are people who've done it because you really know what they you know when you see them and they're you know they're crying as they come into Berness you know you know why they're crying you you you know what the appropriate way to talk to them is, you know, how to help. So, I'll probably go back. But yeah, so but but for me that was a it was a it was a relief,

Maximiliano: but I mean I was also absolutely shattered as well. So, you know, I was only half there. So, I I was looking at the photos of the finish. I don't remember them very well. There's one of me t there's a nice photo of me touching the wall and I don't recognize the expression on my face and I don't remember that photograph being taken. I I just

Ian: Do you remember touching the wool at all?

Maximiliano: I remember making the decision to touch it and not to kiss it.

Ian: Oh, I don't think I remember touching it. No, it was it was all a bit and somebody interviewed me and I don't think I engaged very and I remember going inside and eating a lot. They they serve they got this bowl of sort of mints. There's like mintsman water or something and it doesn't sound very nice but it was it's just what you need. It's just what you're lacking particular it's got protein so you know you do with a bit of protein to so the muscles start repair

Maximiliano: but it was a huge bowl and uh and I thought I love that. So, I had that and uh and then the you know they they sort of assigned somebody to look after you at the finish and then the guy came back and I said I couldn't

Ian: um I couldn't get another this thing was absolutely h you and I ate two of them just sort of straight down. Yeah. I mean that's the funny thing. So when you finish I mean I'm still in this phase now you just eat.

Maximiliano: Yeah.

Ian: You know for weeks you know I mean all you're doing is eating and sleeping.

Maximiliano: Eat.

Ian: Yeah. I mean, I think I lost about a stone doing this and you know, and you know, I didn't really have a stone

Maximiliano: stone in a week.

Ian: Yeah. Just from doing this. And I don't think I I didn't have a stone to lose. I think I was about the right weight at the start. But, you know, just with the calories you're you're using

Maximiliano: and the fact that you there's no way you can keep up with that eating wise,

Ian: however much you try and and what you eat tends to be sort of, you know, empty calories anyway. Um, yeah. Every everyone loses a load of weight and not in a good way.

Maximiliano: Yeah. No, it's not like a great

Ian: No, it's like sort of cutting off your arm and losing weight that way. a really unhealthy way of losing weight.

Maximiliano: I mean, it does uh I I I know a little bit about uh what happens after the Iron Man.

Ian: I know it takes like like a couple years of your life basically.

Maximiliano: Um but but it's yeah, it's I feel it's just like the the rewards just like so great to just say that you did the element or you did the fine

Ian: to know I've done it. Yeah, it's it means a lot to me.

Maximiliano: Yeah.

Ian: Yeah. And it it's I mean that would whatever happens that would have been my last one, but it would have been so hard if if that had been my last one

Maximiliano: and I'd failed. That that would have been difficult.

Ian: Um and I would be plagued by thoughts about, "You know, should I go back next year

Maximiliano: and have another go?"

Ian: Yeah. I I and I'd like to think I would have not because I made that promise to my wife.

Maximiliano: Um,

Ian: but I just don't know. You know, as it is, it's really easy. I've got the medal. I've got the certificate. I can make a nice picture frame with all of these things. And there were lots of nice pictures, including me touching the wall. It's really easy. Stopping now.

Maximiliano: Oh. Um, looking back to the whole five years then, what do you reckon is like the things that you learned through the win?

Ian: Well, two things. The first one, and I Yeah, I never have been great at team sports. Played a bit of cricket, played a bit of football. Um,

Maximiliano: you just hate people apparently.

Ian: No,

Maximiliano: No,

Ian: I love people. I I've always been a runner and a walker and generally on my own.

Maximiliano: You and your

Ian: Yeah.

Maximiliano: And I think of myself as being self-sufficient,

Ian: but bizarrely, I think endurance events like this, it is a team sport and you don't always know the team until you're halfway through. So, you know, there's a couple of people who I've met in the last few events I've done. There's a guy called Richard who I did the Challenger Northwiz. And there's Yako who I did this event with. And I'm not sure I would have finished either of those events without them. And I didn't know them before the start. I didn't know them until I happened to meet them and we ended up walking together. I I think these things are a lot easier if you can buddy up with somebody on the trail. And that was a real surprise for me because, you know, I I've always run marathons and stuff on my own and I train on my own. Um, and I, you know, I think I think of myself as self-sufficient and I don't need anyone, but I think I really do need people in these events. Um, you know, and hopefully you you know, it's hopefully it's even and you can contribute towards their event and you they contribute towards yours, but I think it's so hard to do it on your own. And the other thing is is just that Um when when you are struggling, you know, when you have lost your strength, um and you and you have become weak because you're exhausted or because your brain's exhausted or you're tired or you haven't eaten enough, then you have to try and remember that that your strength will return. And you have to try to make sure that you are still in the game at that point when your strength returns and you are not sat in the passenger seat of a volunteers's car who is taking you to the dropout room at the next checkpoint and I've done that three times and but you you get to where they're driving you and you say, "Actually, do you know what? I feel fine now." And then you think, "Yeah, that's because you gave up too soon. That's because you thought that you felt bad and you were always going to feel bad or you're going to feel bad for the next week and it just isn't the case. It's is your brain tells you you must stop. You must find a reason to stop. Your brain wants you to stop. It wants this to end, but it's wrong. That's the other thing I've learned.

Maximiliano: Oh my gosh. Damn. It's It's just It feels like it's uh I don't know. It's like pure wisdom distilled. It's taking me five years to learn that.

Ian: Oh, fair enough.

Maximiliano: It seems so obvious, you know, with with hindsight these things feel, you know, do it with somebody else. It's easier pain goes away. You know, you'll get better. It'll be better soon. But it's hard. It's hard to remember these things. And if you would have had this wisdom of this these two particular things back when you were let's say 20 how different do you reckon you would have taken your decisions how of a different life you would have uh lived would you have lived

Ian: well know I I I think because I think this this stuff I think these lessons mostly relate to endurance running for me. I I think I think in normal I mean you know it I'm not a loner in in normal life you know I have friends you know I have a partner you know that I have a family I I think it's I think it's just within endurance events where I think where I have thought of myself as being self-sufficient and self-motivated though I I think you know in my 20s I didn't do this sort of stuff. I'm not sure I could have done this sort of stuff in my 20ies because we didn't have the diabetes tech then. Um, so yeah. No, I I Yeah, I'm not sure how useful these lessons are in life in general, I'm afraid.

Maximiliano: I think they're quite specific for me.

Ian: Yeah, that's all right. But but may you maybe the thing about not giving up

Maximiliano: because things listening to your brain

Ian: things will get better you know if if if you're in a real downer don't imagine that you're always going to be

Maximiliano: in a real downer you know maybe that's useful but but I'm not norally like that. That's the thing. I'm a real sort of, you know, positive, you know, happy bunny. My wife,

Ian: which is when you're not sleepd deprived for seven days straight, then then you at the end of this low point, just as I'm going into the church to get a couple of hours sleep, the the people who do the daily films for the for the spine race, they stuck a camera in my face and they said, "How are you feeling?" And I was like, "You want to know?" Okay. And and I gave him this real sort of stream of consciousness of of negativity. Um, and I I mean I was I had to choke back the tears at one point and I was sort of saying how I didn't deserve to be here and think it's really not very but my wife saw that film and she watched and she said, you know, and we've been married for 25 years. She said, "I've never seen that Ian before."

Maximiliano: Really?

Ian: Yeah. That is a that is a stranger to me.

Maximiliano: So So like it was like that bad. Like it was like a

Ian: Yeah. But but even then at the end of it um I think I do get a bit positive and I say you know but you know my friends they got me here and now you know we're going to go and get some rest and then tomorrow we're going over the chieviates and we will make the finish. So it ends on a pretty positive note saying you know we are going to make it and which is exactly what happened.

Maximiliano: Yeah. Well, well done again. It just it just it it feels surreal for me just like listening to the story is it's I don't know. It's so different from anything else that I've

Ian: from real life.

Maximiliano: Yeah, it's it literally feels like it's a book.

Ian: I'm planning on I'm planning on writing.

Maximiliano: I I'm going to write up the diabetes side of it because I know that would be useful to some people.

Ian: Um the people have been asking you know what did you do you know what did you eat what insulin did you take what other management stuff did you do I need to write that out because because that would be useful to people who are on that same journey and the difficulty is I don't think I do all that sort of thing perfectly and I can tell I can tell people what I did but I wouldn't want people to go off and do exactly what I did and then you know have a hypoglycemia on the top of a mountain and die and it be my fault. So, I'm a bit nervous about except I just have to put some caveats in there and say this is what I did and I made it to the end. Take this and and improve on it and

Maximiliano: do do your own planning.

Ian: Well, with that,

Maximiliano: as the saying goes, we stand in the shoulders of giants. Maybe let you be the first giants.

Ian: When I got involved in this, uh, the first thing I did

Maximiliano: Yeah.

Ian: And I asked I asked around for people who' done things like this before and I did zoom calls with all of them and asked them lots of questions and wrote down all the answers. So the first thing I you know people whether they you know finished events or not finished events. If anything I was more interested in the not finished events

Maximiliano: people because I wanted to know what what hadn't worked. Yeah.

Ian: Um but yeah, no, there were I think three people who who each of whom gave me about an hour of their time um online and that was really really useful.

Maximiliano: And how many other people have have done this with diabetes?

Ian: The winter spine race.

Maximiliano: None.

Ian: Am I talking to basically a world Guinness record?

Maximiliano: So, so the the there are the winter spine races and the summer spine races. The winter spine races I've done the full distance, the Challenger North and Challenger South. No one else has completed any of those events. The summer, uh, yeah, two people have, you know, Chris Cop who's an absolute superstar and he should have won this event over here. So, he he started this one. Um he was leading after 24 hours and because he was moving quickly he slipped and landed on a rock on his knee. So he couldn't finish. He had to he had to withdraw at that stage. Um he certainly would have finished

Ian: and he quite possibly would have won it but he didn't and I did. So I'm still the only person you know he plenty of people will. You are the first person to ever run a spine

Maximiliano: any of the winter spine events as far as I know unless somebody did it and kept quiet about it which is possible.

Ian: As far as I know I'm the only person who's completed any of the winter spine events and I've done all three distances. Some are more more we've done.

Maximiliano: We are talking to a basically crazy.

Ian: It's difficult

Maximiliano: but incredibly

Ian: managing a condition where temperature is a factor because this insulin is heat activated.

Maximiliano: Um and and it is a bit I mean it is quite tough going and going to the top of mountains where it's like 45 mph winds and minus 6

Ian: in the middle of the night. I mean, as far as I know, nobody's died um doing it, but it is probably the hidden it. No, no, I'm kidding. It is quite extreme. Um and yeah, you do have to be quite brave, I think, to to go off and do it. But yeah. Yeah. So, I'm convinced many many more will do it now. And the technologies there, you know, to make it much more much easier. Um yeah, and that's why I'm doing it. I'm not sure I would have succeeded if I'd been, you know, finger pricking and injecting insulin, you know, while having to expose skin. Um, I think that would have been difficult.

Maximiliano: Are you literally the first giant

Ian: at this moment? The only one

Maximiliano: me more will come, but I'll always be the first.

Ian: And I'm very proud of that. I am very proud of that, you know. And Chris Cop, you know, who is who is a hundred times the athlete I am. He he's been really kind about it as well. And he was very supportive. Well, once he dropped out, once he did his knee, he was messaging me from then on saying, "Yeah, come on. Come on. Come on." So, he is an absolute superstar and, you know, world's nicest guy.

Maximiliano: So, you have to like basically rub it in his face all the time.

Ian: I'm sure you do. No, I don't get it.

Maximiliano: He He holds the record for one of the summer distances.

Ian: Okay. Yeah.

Maximiliano: And and yeah, he won the the full distance in summer. He he he did that in 24 and he won it.

Ian: Okay. Okay. So then no. Okay. Um so one last question. Um this would be maybe for the people who have been listening to the podcast. They've listened to all you have to say and they're saying they're already searching when it's a the next race basically. How should they prepare for it? What advice would you give them?

Maximiliano: It's the Oh, the first thing is it's quite hard to get in. It's it's he bit like getting Glastonbury tickets. It's heavily overs subscribed. tickets go on sale or the entries go on sale in it might be next week even for the year after and it'll sell out in minutes.

Ian: How many crazy people are there in the

Maximiliano: the summer races are easier to get into because they're not as extreme.

Ian: Yeah.

Maximiliano: So, but yeah, if if somebody were to

Ian: I still find that Yeah. Okay. Yeah. in I would say if if you were starting from scratch, you'd have to give it at least two years and and do some and and build up to it. You know, start off with a marathon and and then and then gradually build up. And it's I tell you another thing it took me a long time to do is is to get a coach. So because I would thought, you know, I don't want to get a coach. You know, Usain Bolt probably has a coach, but you know, Ian Evans doesn't have a coach. you know, that would be an idea. But actually, they're not very expensive. It's it's probably the monthly cost of having a coach is is well, it's less than my local gym membership

Maximiliano: really

Ian: for a month. Yeah. And I I I don't belong to a gym, you know. I don't I don't need to lift weights and stuff. I just need to run and walk and stuff like that. So, so you know, was £75 a month that I was paying for somebody really knowledgeable who had done the spine race to to work out a training program for me and monitor me. I mean, you know, I never met the guy called Ronny Staten and he's he's up north, but you know, his advice was absolutely brilliant and his training plan was good. And there were lots of things I hadn't thought of. like I was doing all my training with the rucks sack on

Maximiliano: and he said, "Well, you're probably getting to the start line injured and certainly worn out." Um he said, "You just don't need to be doing that for for every, you know, once a week, a training session with the rucks sack, but the rest, no, no, just do it just, you know, normally in clothes." and he had me he he had me doing some speed work because he said, you know, even though you're not going to be running fast in the event, you will find what you do a lot easier if you if you do have that speed based, you know, so you know, people like Ronny Staten know what they're talking about and they've trained people year after year this. So I would advise that I think although you know I' I only started doing that three months before this event, but I would say that was a really useful three months

Ian: to have. Well, I got you there.

Maximiliano: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. But

Ian: that and many other things, I'm sure.

Maximiliano: Yeah. And you know, other than that, I mean, just eating, drinking, you know, electrolytes. Um, you've got to try and break, you know, through doing a gradually bigger event, you've got to every time I did any big run or event, I would go home and I would write up afterwards what went well, what didn't go so well, what I would do different next time. constantly learning about what it is that you're doing.

Ian: Okay. Um I know I said it one last question, but I have got another one. For the people who just got diagnosed with diabetes type one, what would you say?

Maximiliano: I I and this is partly why I do it. Um you know, if if I want to be, you know, I mean, people sometimes say, "Oh, you're inspirational." I don't really think of myself that way, but I do accept that, you know, when so when I was diagnosed 44 years ago, I think I assumed that there were lots of doors that were closed to me because of that, and it really isn't the case. You know, there's there's not much you can't do because of type 1 diabetes. You know, I probably wouldn't join the army. I probably wouldn't try to be an astronaut, but other than those two things, I think pretty much everything else is open and available.

Ian: SAS basically.

Maximiliano: Yeah, I think you it would be bad to run out of insulin, you know, behind enemy lines, you know, on a

Ian: just wait a second.

Maximiliano: I think that would be dumb, you know. is so so accepted. But, you know, in in terms of pretty much anything else, you know, as as Chris Cop is teaching us, you know, it's amazing what's possible for a type 1 diabetic to do. And it's it's yeah, you can do pretty much anything. And and if you if you throw yourself into it, you can do most of these things better. you know, I don't know anyone, you know, other than the people I know through the spine race, I don't know anyone who who who who does a tenth of what I do, you know, and you know, and then and pretty much everyone I know isn't diabetic as well. You know, it really doesn't need to hold you back at all from doing anything other than joining the special air service or going to the moon. Except that you're not going to do those and everything else is possible. So, you know, don't imagine that, you know, and don't let anyone subtly imply that you ought to be, you know, not going and playing football with your football team or shouldn't be going on that school trip or anything. It's all rubbish. And they're only saying these things or implying these things because they're scared because they're scared they're going to be held responsible if you have a hypoglycemia. And, you know, I mean, it really doesn't matter. You know, the risk, you know, is not that you're going to have a hypoglycemia in a park somewhere. the the real risk is that you're going to get really fat and that at age, you know, 54, you're going to have a leg amputated because you've got so fat and you didn't get enough exercise. Make sure that doesn't happen. You know, if you are diabetic, you know, become, you know, become extremely active and do exciting things and go up mountains and run marathons and run ultramarathons and walk the length of the country, you know, walk the Sahara. All of these things are absolutely possible. Um, so do them.

Ian: That's incredibly powerful. Ian Evans, thank you very much for being on the podcast. Um, guys, thank you very much for listening again to another weeks of Beyond the Horizon's episodes. Um, yeah. Uh, again, thank you very much for being in the podcast. Thank you for inviting me. And well boys, see you next week.