Billy Gelo: Full Podcast Transcript

Host: Maximiliano Fabres

Guest: Billy Gelo Location: Liverpool Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXyOQ7Fhpls&t=1s

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/episode/469JGXszkdjJ0k4OE5B9Kp?si=3fac964a4d504ae6

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Maximiliano: ... Those words capture something fundamental about philanthropy. Giving it's rarely about the transaction itself. It's about identity, purpose, and legacy. The most effective fundraisers understand this deeply. They don't focus on asking for money. They focus on creating opportunities for people to express what they care about. Today's conversation is about the frameworks behind that process. The systems, habits, and principles that help charities raise more support and create more impact. Welcome to Beyond the Horizon podcast, the podcast for future and present leaders of organizations. In case you're new here, for every episode, we take a tour through a single field of knowledge. We interview experts, not just to collect facts, but to unpack the core mindset of their discipline. How they think, what counts as evidence, and how they actually solve problems. That extract you just heard was a quote that I took from my research for this podcast today, which I did quite a few hours, actually, the train. My guest today is Lily Jaro.

Billy: Hello. So, I just um a little bit of background on what I do first before we get into it. I'm a paid fundraiser. Um what that means in practice is that I go to a variety of different types of sites. We work supermarkets, petrol stations, garden centers, events. Essentially, anywhere that has a footfall and will take us, we go. Set up a stand and banner, and then we inspire people, members of the public, to give monthly donations to various causes. Uh I myself personally have been doing it for just about a year now. In that time, I've managed to raise over half a million pounds. Um and I think there's just nothing that I'd much rather be doing in my life, to be honest.

Maximiliano: Jeez, what an introduction. You forgot to say that you're one of the best fundraisers of the country.

Billy: Well, I did also win, um, a couple of awards in my time. I got best fundraiser in the country for Um, as he says, uh, I also got, uh, most promising, um, new staff, um, from my one of the offices in Swindon, and I got presented with best retention recently, as well.

Maximiliano: Okay, so you're literally like one of the top top fundraisers.

Billy: Yeah, that would be fair to say.

Maximiliano: Okay, perfect. So, look, uh, I was, uh, dive straight into the podcast, okay? Uh, so first of all, what is fundraising for you?

Billy: For me personally, um, fundraising, it's it's complicated, um, to answer that question, really, because there are many forms. Um, in my line of work, I meet many, many people who fundraise in many different ways. You know, you get people who fundraise by doing climbing mountains or jumping out of planes, or they shake a cash box, they do a coffee morning, you know? For me, my form of fundraising is playing the law of average, you know? If you try, try, try the same thing again and again with the correct system and method, eventually, the results will follow. And for me, fundraising is just habits, systems, and process.

Maximiliano: Okay, perfect. Perfect. So, law of averages, systems, and processes. Yes?

Billy: Yeah.

Maximiliano: That's great. That's great. Uh, so Um, well, that I know there is a lot, uh, to talk about, especially here in the UK, because, um, well, there there is uh something that is similar to sales. How is it different though?

Billy: Well, the thing is with what people misunderstand, especially new starters when they come into the job, cuz yeah, there is obviously the sales aspect of it. You are you're selling the not a physical thing, you're selling the idea of why it's good, why it's worthwhile. It differs for me in the we're not using hard sales and saying objection handling. Instead of selling, I think of it more of inspiring. I think that when my mindset with that shifted, my results became a lot better. And also I I took a lot more pride in what I do. You know, I'm selling beautiful, beautiful causes. I mean, like, you know, You know, these these causes, they touch thousands of lives. And like, I know that the difference between being a salesman and a fundraiser. As a salesman, you do what you do for the good of your bank account, you know? It's not really for the good of society as a whole. As a fundraiser, if I was in it for money, I'd go be a salesman. Does that make sense?

Maximiliano: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think I think you you you clarified it quite quite quite well. Uh basically, you inspire and the reasons are fairly different as well. Uh if I got it right, yeah?

Billy: Yeah, absolutely.

Maximiliano: The other thing uh that I really want to talk uh or ask you about is really uh why does it actually exist, this kind of uh job?

Billy: Yeah. Well, it's necessity really. Um, the reason that it exists as a role is that unfortunately a TV advert or a billboard will yield, you know, 10% return, 5% at best normally. And quite simply, it doesn't generate enough for the charity to actually function. Um whereas for people such as myself, that's where 80% of the money for all charity in this country comes from. Quite simply put, it is much much harder to ignore a topic when you've got a very friendly, personable person in front of you who's putting it forward in an enthusiastic way. And even if people don't sign up with me, I'm confident I've raised way more online. I can't do it with you today, but I will do a one-off amazing that goes so far for us. Head to our website. You know, and it's sort of that person-to-person interaction that's the difference. That's why it is needed.

Maximiliano: Yeah, I think situations, well, specifically because we're talking about charities, personal situations can differ so much. The fact that there is a fundraiser there guiding you through the process, and not only that, but also um well, telling you about the experience and what does the charity do, actually makes a huge difference. Huge difference.

Billy: Absolutely.

Maximiliano: Um yeah, specifically well, like you said, in campaigns like where the theme is fairly sensitive.

Billy: Mhm. I think that well, if you want to talk specifically about different campaigns, I mean, I've done 13 myself at this point. And I find that Let's talk It is your right, it's an extremely sensitive topic. It means that in my day-to-day, I have to be very gentle with people. You know? And I think that there's very much a skill to that because when I take when I'm training people, which I often am, um it's kind of hard to put that across sometimes. People don't understand that when you're asking these questions, you have to say it in a soft way. Because really, what is built is an understanding and a mutual respect. I think that the best response I get from people is when I just show respect for what they've been through. And understanding, and then they give me the same courtesy.

Maximiliano: Uh that's that's great. Yeah, of course. Of course that that that sensitive as as as you said being um well intended one, uh but also soft spoken helps a lot. Um So, yeah, um following with the questions, what do you reckon is the main misconception?

Billy: Main misconception is that most people are in it for the money. I think the obviously there are some. Right? It's the nature of it. However, you know, when you look at it, in my experience, majority of people come in for different reasons. You know, they don't come in for the money. They come in because they heard the fundraising is fun, and that it can grow their skill set and their personal skills. I'll I'll give you some examples. Look at There's this guy, new starter on my team, local Um now, he won't mind me saying that he is not the sharpest tool in the shed. Um and he's also very very shy as a person. You know, over the course of the last 3 weeks, I've taken him from someone who could hardly approach anyone in personal or professional life. Now, he's so much more confident in himself. He messaged me um 2 nights ago and he said, "Billy, thank you so much um for believing in me and allowing me to believe in myself." So, I think the reason most people come in is because they feel the energy in the room. They look around, they see these people who are genuinely happy to be there, and are happy to be raising money for these causes, and I think it's a beautiful thing. It's why I stay. It's why I do what I do. Does that answer your question?

Maximiliano: Yeah, absolutely. I think I think as as you said that um it all starts uh with the courses. Because it's so different from sales. In the fact that you any everything that you do helps raise money towards great charities. I think I think that changes everything and that it can be felt in the room as you said.

Billy: Really?

Maximiliano: So yeah, it's it's it's incredible.

Billy: It comes back to the values.

Maximiliano: Sorry?

Billy: It comes back to the values, you know, when I get someone walk through the door and I know that they're just here for the money. I suggest them to go elsewhere. Um. Because if you just in a job for the money as a fund raiser.

Maximiliano: actually?

Billy: I do. Yeah.

Maximiliano: Damn.

Billy: I do.

Maximiliano: Okay.

Billy: hearted with it because that's not the value that I hold. And that's not the kind of culture that I want. If you've got someone who's just in it for money, they're going to do things in the wrong way. They're going to be pushy. They're going to misrepresent and they're going to hurt the name of us. Hurt the name of the charity and hurt my team. Cuz it's infectious. Someone like that walk through my door. Goodbye. You know? There are plenty of jobs. Plenty of sales roles that look for that kind of person. All that person has to do is look for them. Not for us. Does that make sense?

Maximiliano: I think it makes absolute sense to me. Um. So tell me tell me a little bit cuz you did mention that that that you have a team and so on. Can you tell me a little bit about what you do in the company that you work for?

Billy: In terms of like the day-to-day trading aspect.

Maximiliano: So what position do you actually hold currently?

Billy: a position known as crew leader.

Maximiliano: What does it mean?

Billy: What it means is that I have people under me. Who I've trained in how to do what I do essentially. Um we then go out as a team. I run them sort of quote unquote crew nights. I do a lot outside of the day-to-day of the office. Like for example, in 55 minutes I have to run through my setup call. That'll take me about an hour. I'll go through everyone's week, pick them apart, we'll set targets for the next week. I do a lot on the outside. Like I'll ring them, make sure they're okay, get them a coffee here and there. I'll just make sure that everyone feels supported and has the best opportunities they can to go out and raise as much money as possible, you know? Cuz again, for me, the money's kind of paramount for myself personally. So long as my guys can pay their bills, so long as I can pay my bills, and there's a lot of charity being raised in the right way, I'm happy. To answer your question more specifically what I think you're asking, um that's not really why I do what I do, and it's why the team I have is so dedicated towards the cause. Because again, if someone walks through the door like that, I sign them away. Does that make sense?

Maximiliano: Yeah, I think I think I think that's uh that's I think uh crystal clear, I would say.

Billy: Yeah.

Maximiliano: Um you I I do remember working with you cuz it well, we uh for uh the viewer we used to work together, and that's how we met.

Billy: Mhm.

Maximiliano: Uh I actually trained you for a

Billy: You did? Yeah, I remember. Back in uh it's been a long time now.

Maximiliano: How long ago?

Billy: I remember the garden center. I remember yeah, they sent they sent you out they sent you out to train me. And then I gave you a sign up.

Maximiliano:

Billy: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He put a sign up in my account. It's um he that that's yeah. Well, it wasn't it wasn't I don't think it was great. But well, I think since the since the day since day one I would say you were fully committed to the course and I think that was what made you special I would say.

Billy: Yeah.

Maximiliano: So that was what made you stand out and then like six months later like when massive amounts of awards and so on and be well one of the top one of the top

Billy: what I love so much about the the structure of the industry that we work in. Is that in most jobs in most companies yada yada. All right. You walk in and you have this this time gap. It's not a skill gap. It doesn't matter how good you are at what you do in most companies. It matters how long you've been there or the qualifications you have. I myself I dropped out of university. I thought it was a waste of time and money.

Maximiliano: What were you studying before?

Billy: I was studying accounting. I've always loved numbers.

Maximiliano: Really? Oh, damn. Okay.

Billy: Yeah. I I was I would have been happy to be an accountant. But then when I was actually in uni itself going through the motions I sort of realized that on the other end of it you come out with 60 to 100,000 pounds of debt to walk into a job that's going to pay you 38 to start with 70 tops after 5 years. And I thought to myself that what I'm trying to get at with your point about 6 months later is that in this job in this industry you can make so much progress so quickly because it's a skill gap not a time gap if that makes sense at all.

Maximiliano: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think I think you said it you said it perfectly there because well I was 8 months into the industry and you did drop me a sign up. So you were good enough to think

Billy: I think third week or something like that. I'll say third week, you know, just to

Maximiliano: Make you feel better. Yeah.

Billy:

Maximiliano: Yeah, at least at least make me feel better, man. Come on. Uh but yeah, no no no. It It was definitely a skill thing. And you picked it up so quickly. Um so yeah, I Again, I I I give it to towards that passion that you have for the charities that you were represented. At that point you were representing

Billy: How do I put this? With the more happy campaigns.

Maximiliano:

Billy: Like, you know, for example All right, the question is cats or dogs, what's your favorite? And you can just have a lot more upbeat conversation. Whereas with the more sensitive campaigns, you have to be obviously a lot more sensitive. So I'm very much looking forward to going back to having a lot more of a laugh. Not to say I don't enjoy or have passion for the other campaigns, I do. But just it's just a beautiful It's beautiful in my opinion. It really is. It's one of those ones that I love the most, personally.

Maximiliano: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You do You do enjoy it. I did I did see you enjoy it like the whole time. If you could tell us straight up, what is your process like?

Billy: As in my day-to-day on-field process? My waking up or the whole pile?

Maximiliano: So let's say since you go into the office.

Billy: Okay.

Maximiliano: Go into the office and

Billy: So yeah, first of all

Maximiliano: What do you do to have a great

Billy: By the time I'm in the office I've already had my morning planned. I do that night before. Um I plan out what lessons I'm running for my team, who's doing what. If I'm running the meetings, what meetings to run, if not, what's being run, I'll get that ready to go. Um so by the time I'm in the office, I'm already pumped up. I'm excited. It's vital to walk into the office ready to go and rearing for it because in fundraising the best fundraisers just have the best energy. Because most of it's transfer of energy. Right?

Maximiliano: That's true. That's true.

Billy: And that begins from the office. And you know, as we said in the previous episode, I have a bit of a team behind me. If my energy is poor their energy will be poor and therefore we raise less money. So it's vital that I walk in with the right ready to go. So my process first thing, "Morning, morning. How are we all? Good night off, yeah? Yeah, yesterday did Mate, you raised three grand yesterday. That's my boy. That's my girl. Jeez. How many you doing today? Yeah, yeah, you're doing seven. Go on. Jeez. You know, all that pumped up vibe, right? You got You got to bring it in. You have to bring it in. Um and then after that sort of process of going to the field you know, I'll I'll be taking usually it's about me plus four, sometimes plus three. And then I'm making sure I'm running the energy of that we call it a sector. I'll be running the energy making sure the conversations are in the right place. People aren't talking about the negatives.

Maximiliano: What is particularly a sector?

Billy: A sector? So a sector would be We have sites that we book out week by week, usually for week chunks. A sector is defined by a group of fundraisers. Normally it's two twos or a two and a three going out towards the sites cuz we book them in similar areas so we can travel together. It helps with the energy daily. Does that make sense?

Maximiliano: Yeah, perfect. So So you're running the the the the sector and you're having Well, good music. You're hyped.

Billy: Yeah.

Maximiliano: You're giving compliments, let's just say.

Billy: Mhm. Keeping that hype train running from from the first second of the office to the end of the day, that hype train is ran. Cuz it has to be. Without a hype train, no money is raised.

Maximiliano: Makes sense. Yeah.

Billy: Yeah.

Maximiliano: Yeah. I mean I mean I I remember doing it. So so yeah, I I I do feel it. I do feel that though.

Billy: Yeah.

Maximiliano: So Okay, so you get into the store

Billy: Mhm.

Maximiliano: or to the car park and what do you do?

Billy: So in terms of that, by the time we're at the site, I've already set my expectations for the day. Uh I'll look at my footfall, I use Google Maps, ChatGPT, whatever source I have to find out how many people I'm expecting to approach. If I don't know, I'll ask someone who's been there before or similar types of stores. Um we then set up a thing called ABCs, which is approach, back to stand, and close. Um approach is obviously if you say, "Oh yeah." That's saying hello to someone approaching them. Uh back to standard is if someone stops, and that's when they answer your first question. And a close is if you ask them for money. Um so by that point, before we even get set up in the store, everyone knows their targets for the day and what they need to hit to make their correct conversions to raise the correct amount of money. Um and then once I'm actually on the stand, it's a case of maintaining my positive mindset regardless of how many people tell me no or of the way in which they tell me no. It's called We call it the gold

Maximiliano: people Sorry. Sorry. I cut you.

Billy: We call it the goldfish mentality. Um you just have to forget.

Maximiliano: Right.

Billy: It doesn't matter. Just next. Next. Next. Next. Constantly.

Maximiliano: Right.

Billy: Um

Maximiliano: Goldfish mentality. Okay, I see. I see.

Billy: Go on. You got a question?

Maximiliano: That's good. That's good. Oh yeah. So basically, how many people do you approach per day?

Billy: Well, it's various. Um it depends on the site we work because we work every kind of site, right? So in a low footfall, quote unquote, we call that between 40 and 80 people in a day over the course of average about 8 hours. In a mid footfall, you call that between 80 to 120. In a high footfall, it's 120 plus. By you 120 to 1 80 to 100. And then very high is 200 plus. Um the misconception a lot of people have is that you will raise more money in a higher footfall. Um it's actually not the case most of the time. In general, we see a better result pulled from a lower footfall. Because people have more time. People have more time to speak. Right?

Maximiliano: Oh, damn. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay.

Billy: You have more time to work with someone and explain it to them. Yeah, it's counterintuitive cuz you think, "Oh, if I speak to more people, there's more chance." Right?

Maximiliano: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's what I That's what I thought at the beginning. I remember that.

Billy: I think that's a mindset problem. The reason why you struggled to make this work, respectfully, is that you had the wrong mindset towards these kind of things. And this is a This is a trouble that I have to work with a lot of my guys on. Is to explain to them you don't need to speak to 100 people every day. You need to speak to three of the right people. Does that make sense?

Maximiliano: Yeah.

Billy: And in a lower footfall, you have a lot more chance cuz people have a lot more time and typically in a lower footfall, they're not running They're not in the big shop. Right? They're not running out the store trying to get places. Right? They're there to get probably like their milk for their cup of tea and then watch their telly. Right? Which means when you stop them politely, "Hello. Quick question. Thank you for stopping. You're very polite." They'll take that time to talk with you. And then you can put the cause You can put the cause across to them in such a way that either A, they go online and donate, or B, they decide, "Yeah, this is worth my time. This is worth my money." Um so that's your question. It's entirely various. In an average week, I'll approach 1,500.

Maximiliano: 1,500?

Billy: Yeah.

Maximiliano: Okay. So, when you when you talked about your guy, I forgot I forgot the name of the person. Sorry.

Billy: Yeah.

Maximiliano: Yeah.

Billy: So, when when that three weeks, he talked to four and a half thousand people.

Maximiliano: Probably more cuz we were in superstores for most of that. I'd estimate like two 6,000.

Maximiliano: Oh my god. That poor guy, like he just at the beginning incredibly shy, but after after talking to 6,000 people

Billy: It's sink or swim.

Maximiliano: No way.

Billy: Right? It's sink or swim. And the best way to learn and to get better is quite simply to make mistakes and do it wrong. The more mistakes my guys make in their first week, the better they are by their second one.

Maximiliano: Mhm. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's with every single um well, a- any any skill whatsoever. The more you do it and the more you well, end up you know, just messing up somehow,

Billy: Mhm.

Maximiliano: the more you learn from it. So, yeah, it's it's quite weird, but yeah, now now I understand why he thanked you. He brought You probably like supported him so much.

Billy: So much. So much. I mean, there were over the course of that, if I had to estimate in terms of time that we took off the stand, and stand being our little table that we have in the store for the iPads, etc. Um I took him off the stand at least once a day for at least 20 minutes every day. Um just to bring his mental back to where it had to be, to explain to him that it's the way he's feeling is normal, to push him to push himself. What a lot of people go wrong when they're trying to train someone to do a skill like fundraising on the scale we that we do it, cuz it's one thing to shake a cup. Does that make sense? It's another thing entirely what we do. Um when a lot of people go wrong training people are a bit more shy, cuz they don't understand that the only real job of the trainer is to inspire someone to believe in themselves and believe that they are able to do it. Right? He's gone out today without me and he's went out and he's signed up two people. Without me that.

Maximiliano: Yes. Come on. I'm reaching for you.

Billy: That's all my boy. That's my boy. I was so proud of him. When I saw it come through, I was like, "That's my boy." I text him like, "Yes, mate. Yes, mate." And he was like

Maximiliano: Good for you.

Billy: I feel so good. I'm going to kill people.

Maximiliano: Three weeks ago this guy wasn't talking.

Billy: Yeah, look. He came in. He was like this. Tracksuit and like, you know, right? It was quite clear this guy hadn't been treated with respect his whole life as far as I could tell. The only thing I did, so I treated him with a little bit of respect and I genuinely believed in him and I offered him every part of my skill set that I possibly could. And now he's going out and he's raising money and he loves it and he's so happy. And he's dressing smarter, looking after himself more, you know? And I think it's a beautiful thing. Cuz you know, I wasn't always confident, well-dressed, and whatever as I am now. And a lot of that comes down to this job. The and not so much the job itself, more the it forces you to expose the parts of yourself that are more timid and that are you hide away from because of the amount of people you have to speak to and the way you have to handle those conversations. You learn how to speak to people and therefore how to speak to yourself. Um if that makes sense at all.

Maximiliano: Yeah, absolute so, uh you did mention rejection before. Um So, how did you handle rejection at the very beginning and how do you would you compare it to Liam maybe? Uh like if you could give me another example, it doesn't have to be Liam, but

Billy: Yeah, well, yeah, it's like I'll give you an example to someone else, actually, cuz I've actually got an example here. Um, me, personally, in the beginning, it bothered me for about 2 weeks. I think that's how long it took me to get over it. Um, it needs to be in the understanding that it's not personal. People aren't rejecting you. They're rejecting a financial commitment. Um, and I think that's the big difference between in Bristol, the office that me and you were in, and the office that me and Sam are on now, is that we set much stronger expectations with people. You've never heard of an ABC before.

Maximiliano: Uh, no, not really. Not really.

Billy: Because with the ABCs, if I'm telling you you're expecting to close at least 18 people today, and your target is two, okay, every time someone tells you no, well, I told you this was going to happen, mate. What's the problem? Oh, you did, to be fair. And I did agree it was fair enough. Okay, yeah, moving on. Right? Um, for me, personally, rejection doesn't bother me anymore. When you get told no 20 to 200,000 times, no is just no. Does that make sense?

Maximiliano: Yeah.

Billy: It doesn't matter. Okay, fine, next. Goldfish. Bye.

Maximiliano: I do I do remember those days where where I was like, I don't know, 6, 7 months in into the job, and like, at some point it just like clicked. It was like, oh my god, like, this does not bother me at all anymore. Like, it's it's so weird.

Billy: Yeah. Because it just doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter. Um, the example I'll give you, there's a girl on my team, she has an issue with not dealing with the rejection very well. And what you find for people like that, the what it just it's just a matter of time until they get it. My job there is to explain to her that every no is one step closer to a yes. And eventually she'll understand it. Um, for the time being, it's a little bit difficult for her. And it's not that I don't understand or appreciate it. I get it. But the simple fact is 98% of the job is being told no. It comes back to the ABCs. On an average ABC for a mid-foot fall, you're setting 120 approaches. You're setting 40 back to stands with 40 stops. And you're setting 18 closes, so asking 18 people for running. On the average day, you expect two to five people to sign up. Which means on an average day, you're expecting 118 no's.

Maximiliano: Damn.

Billy:

Maximiliano: is it's it's just crazy to me that that the amount of no's that you go through.

Billy: Look, I'll reiterate, right? In my time I've raised over half a million pounds.

Maximiliano: That that that is how many no's? I want to I want to know how many probably half a million no's.

Billy: How?

Maximiliano:

Billy: How many no's? I wouldn't even know. I wouldn't even know. Because that doesn't account for road trips as well, you know, cuz on road trips you get way more. And I've been on a lot of road trips now. So, yeah, probably barest minimum a million.

Maximiliano: Mhm. Okay.

Billy: Maybe more.

Maximiliano: A million, damn.

Billy: Yeah.

Maximiliano: Yeah, hopefully. Yeah. Yeah, no, that's that's crazy. That's crazy. But no no wonder you get such a tough skin afterwards. And you get so used to being confident in what you're doing. Cuz well, you don't take anything personal after that.

Billy: The thing is again, it just comes it comes back to the acute awareness that if you lose your mind your mental, then you lose everything. 90% of the battle of what we do is mentality. It's being able to still be positive when the right person walks up.

Maximiliano: And now I was about to ask you about training actually.

Billy: Okay.

Maximiliano: How do you actually train your guys?

Billy: Well, it depends on the person. Um it sort of comes back to understanding that your job as a trainer in any, you know, sort of sales-based role is to train mentality more than it is to train skills. Um it's the biggest thing I talk about is that habits build skills and skills build results. What you get a lot of people do is they come in and they focus purely on results. And it doesn't make any sense to do so. Um cuz inherently it doesn't happen. Um we have these things we call them the four key habits. Um it's your willingness to learn which dictates, you know, how much are you actually asking questions? How much are you taking on information? Are you arguing constantly? Are you actually trying to gain a skill set here? Um that is your reliability {forward slash} accountability. Um obviously reliability dictates if you say you're going to be in on time, you're going to be in on time. If you say you're going to do something, you're going to do it. Um and then accountability comes back to like when I ask you how was your day today? Where Where was your challenges? Where did you go wrong? Where did you go right? It's about being honest there. Cuz as a trainer um I'm quite good at reading people but I inherently cannot read someone's mind.

Maximiliano:

Billy: And if I'm not with someone on a given day, then I have no way of knowing what's going on. Right?

Maximiliano: Yeah, I know. Of course.

Billy: You then have your positivity. Um it's a pretty big one. Um you know, it's not just being positive 100% of the time. That's not human. It's not realistic. Um it's about being willing to make your mistakes and just keep pushing it forward. Um you know, we I call it the there's the bad Dobby analogy that I use quite a lot. Those of you who have seen Harry Potter, I'm sure you know what I'm about to say. When you make a mistake and you go badum badum badum.

Maximiliano:

Billy: Right, you see a lot of people do that on the field, don't they? What you doing? It doesn't help. All right? And I very much definitely remember the fourth one. 100% I remember it, yeah. I don't remember it. I don't remember it. The point is that it's four habits that you run through. Um if you can follow them, then that's my job is to train those habits more than anything else. Does that make sense?

Maximiliano: Yeah, I know, of course. So, okay. So, let me let me recall then. Um you say accountability, willingness to learn,

Billy: positivity, reliability.

Maximiliano: positivity and

Billy: and reliability.

Maximiliano: and reliability. Okay, perfect. Yeah, I mean that Do you Do you reckon like if if more people would uh train based off of their own key habits or key habits for that for that particular role being XYZ, amongst them, they would gain more confidence from the from the people being trained?

Billy: Yeah. I think that where a lot of people go wrong in training is that they speak about skill skill skills. And the gap there for me and the reason why most of people I train go and do really well is that 10% of the job is skill. 90% comes from the mentality. And the mentality comes from your habits. So, all I'm focusing on for the first, you know, 2 weeks, really, is habits. And not much else. First week, all I focus with is habits. I'm teaching very basics, you know, how to say what you need to say and make people laugh and tones of voice and that kind of thing, the very basics. I teach that, obviously, cuz you have to know the basics to do anything.

Maximiliano: So, I actually don't remember what they have to say and not stare at them saying like,

Billy: Hello, quick question. You know? But, the most focus for me is on habits. And I'm, you know, I'll be very harsh with my guys. Um, if I think that someone is not giving me 100% I will tell them. But, look, mate. You know, as your trainer, I don't feel you're giving me 100%. Do you think you are? Oh, you don't? Okay, where are you lacking? Great. Okay, so what do you need to fix? Okay, can you do that? Amazing, move on. And in that conversation there, it uh, it leads to a lot more respect from both parties. Cuz they understand that I'm paying attention to them, but also that I'm not going to let them slack. Cuz it's not in their benefit.

Maximiliano: Yeah. Yeah, here I got a couple of questions, a couple of personal questions, actually. I know you can't motivate people. Like, you can you can't self-motivate them, so to say. You can't give them that hunger. But, how can you uh, set them straight in some way?

Billy: Well, it's

Maximiliano: it gently, at least?

Billy: It's a tricky question to answer because it's very case-by-case. It depends on that person. I can give you generalized. So, in general, an emotional person, I'm going to talk more towards like, you know, uh, well, think about the difference you can make. For a logical person, I'm going to say, "Well, look, you're here to do some work, right? You know, you want to be good, you want to learn. You said you told me you want to learn this skill set. If you're not doing this, how are you supposed to learn the skill set?" For the kind of person who's kind of a bit more indifferent, I just match their energy. I just be indifferent. It's the thing that you need to understand is that you can't want someone to want it more than they do. Right? And I get that grasped by someone very quickly.

Maximiliano: Yeah. Oh my god, I I always forget that. I I always forget that. Yeah.

Billy: Yeah. Yeah. If they don't want it, okay, great. I'll still give you my best. I'll give you the same energy you give me. If you come to me for advice, I'll give it you. But if you're not seeking it from me and you don't listen when I give it to you, why would I bother?

Maximiliano: Guys, this is absolute genius advice. Like absolute genius advice. Like Billy, like this is at least for me, this is key at the moment. Uh just letting go and saying like, "Hey, look, I can't want it more than you." Like

Billy: Yeah. It's that simple.

Maximiliano: to you at the end of the day. Yeah.

Billy: Yeah.

Maximiliano: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, that's great, man. That that is actually great. Another thing cuz cuz you did talk about the four key habits. Four key points. Imagine you would have the again, another person question. Imagine you would have to take a decision between two guys, all right? Spending time with two guys who are

Billy: quite frequently do. Yeah.

Maximiliano: Yeah?

Billy: Yeah.

Maximiliano: Okay. So, what would be your priority as in maybe the the four key habits? Which one would be your unique priority?

Billy: Most important. Okay, that's a that's a good question. Um so again, it's quite case-by-case, right? In terms of when I'm choosing between two people on who to focus on, the biggest thing, the two biggest ones, willingness to learn and reliability. If someone is unreliable, I refuse to work on their terms. They work on my terms. Right? I'm the one with the skill set. I'm the one who's training them. If they want my skill set, they come to me, I don't come to them. Right? That's how it should be That should be the dynamic of a trainer and trainer.

Maximiliano: Yeah.

Billy: Okay? In my opinion, right? Um and secondly, if someone's very willing to learn and they're asking me questions all the time, of course, that's the person I'm going to focus on. Because that's the person who's going to take the most benefit from my time. Um in terms of the accountability,

Maximiliano: So, again, willingness to learn would be your your first one then.

Billy: It goes so it's sort of like a tie between willingness to learn and reliability. If someone's a little bit unreliable, but they're very willing to learn, I can shape the other habit over time. I could I can teach someone to be better. I can show them why it's in their benefit to do so.

Maximiliano: Yeah.

Billy: If someone isn't willing to learn, I can't teach them the other habits anyway. Cuz they're not willing to Does that make sense?

Maximiliano: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Most definitely, mate.

Billy: Yeah.

Maximiliano: Most definitely. Uh I remember when I was in the industry, I actually was Yeah, I've I've always had the trouble with with being willing to learn and so on. And this is also why I actually started the podcast. Um so that I could actually learn from the people that I want to take information from.

Billy: Mhm.

Maximiliano: Uh you We've been planning this this podcast for

Billy: Yeah.

Maximiliano: About a month?

Billy: Yeah.

Maximiliano: A month and a half? I don't I don't I don't know how long it is.

Billy: Yeah, I think I think 2 months to be honest. Yeah, mate, come to Liverpool. Come see the office, you know? It will There's There's it's

Maximiliano: love to.

Billy: I love what I see now. Um I see the early stages. You know, we have a little box. And you got 18 guys crammed into a box.

Maximiliano:

Billy: And the energy in that room is just palpable. Do you know? Because everyone's so excited go out and just get it done. And there's so many people in that room and I feel quite proud to be a part of it. There's many people in that room that are striving for self-betterment. I think that that's the biggest value in my team is that I'm constantly striving for betterment of myself. Every day. Right? That's That's a mantra that I live by. And because of how consistent I am with it, people just follow suit. And you see, you know, go back to my my my my guy Liam. You know, he in his 3 weeks I I see a whole new Liam. Right? And I'm sure next week he's going to keep improving and even to the way he holds himself now in day-to-day life, he's not shriveling away. He's up. You know, he's proud. He's on it. You know, I think that that's that's the beauty of what I do as a trainer from that standpoint is that you take people who aren't the most confident, who maybe don't believe in themselves so much, and you just give them that belief. And I think for me, you know, I wasn't you know, I've never been an unconfident guy, granted. Um but really it is just a case of taking these people who probably otherwise wouldn't have turned this around and turning it around with them. And it's it's beautiful. It really is.

Maximiliano: Yeah, I know. I know. It's satisfying, mate. I I have my own team, of course. Well, you know it. Um for the podcast, we have a an editor, a videographer, and now we're actually taking applications for a position as a copywriter. Yeah.

Billy: Nice.

Maximiliano: So, uh so yeah, for for whoever for whoever wants if they are if they are in Bristol, they can send us one either through the comments or just through the link in the bio or the the email address. All right. So, well, I want to go go out of training and I actually want to go through team management. Now, which is fairly close. But, I think team management is It's a little bit of more of more like passion.

Billy: It's more techy.

Maximiliano:

Billy: Yeah, it's more techy because yeah, let's say one you tell them, "Okay, you got to have the four key habits. You help them develop those four key habits." and so on. Once they have those four key habits, they still are well, they still are human. So, they're still a messy bunch, like both of us, including us.

Maximiliano: Absolutely. Yeah.

Billy: So, how do you manage that, mate? Go on, especially now that you're managing nine guys.

Maximiliano: So, it's well, it's as it's to do with we call them touch points. So, I will spend an average of a week, sometimes two with a new starter. When I take them on, I spend the whole week with them. Yeah, the whole week. And if they need a bit more of my time and they deserve a bit more of my time in terms of habits, I'll take a second week.

Billy: Mhm.

Maximiliano: Right. Most of the time.

Billy: Okay, so you would even take a second week, so 14 days or you're talking about 10 days?

Maximiliano: Or like that, yeah, 10 10 12 working days.

Billy: Oh, okay, yeah.

Maximiliano:

Billy: If they if if they if they deserve and need it, absolutely, I'll give them that time. Right. In terms of trying to manage their habits, I will speak to most of my guys on a daily basis over the phone. In the office in the morning, I have touch points. I talk to them. How's it going? What's this? What's that? We have a habit breakdown. Um so at the end of the day, people rate their habits out of 10 um in the chat. And that's where I I go through that before I speak to someone. Okay, what are you lacking? Okay, what's going on? Why have you been unreliable for? Oh, okay. Um your willingness to learn seems to be dropping off. Why is that? You know, is there something going on? Is it Is it me? Is it Do you need something from me? Do you need something from the office? Is it What's the deal? Right? And then we sort of The trick is to unpack that. And what I'm quite proud of is that my team has such a culture of accountability that it makes it very easy for me cuz people just come up with it. I've not got to dig it out of people. People just tell me. You know? Um

Maximiliano: So so so what Wait a second. So you spent 2 weeks with them.

Billy: Mhm.

Maximiliano:   Uh secondly, you

Billy: I have a habit tracker.

Maximiliano: Yeah. A habit tracker. Oh, a habit tracker.

Billy: Yeah, so I have I have daily breakdown and I have habit breakdown too. Both.

Maximiliano: Oh, a habit break.

Billy: Yeah.

Maximiliano:

Billy: Yeah. I forgot I forgot Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think I think that's key, actually.

Maximiliano: Mhm.

Billy: All And then the

Maximiliano: Um and then And then there's a third thing. Um I do a Sunday call. Um every Sunday, I'll get all my guys into onto the call. Um and I'll go through and I'll just do like who hit their targets, new targets for the week ahead, who they spoke with, im like networking wise, ringing for advice. Um and I'll also just go through and if I think someone's lacking, I'll hold them accountable on that call. Um I also hold myself accountable.

Billy: in a group or do you do them one-on-one? The final thing that I really want to talk about on this uh chapter is actually your decision-making.

Maximiliano: In what regard?

Billy: When you're actually fundraising. I know there's different uh scripts and so on in this things that you learn to say. So you get memorized kind of the story. What I don't understand is how you go from person A to B to C, cuz I know you got like the three different types of persons or personalities or four.

Maximiliano: I speak I speak I speak three. I teach three.

Billy: You teach three? Okay. Can you teach me that exactly cuz like I'm I'm fascinated by that.

Maximiliano: So for me, we need to understand when you're speaking to someone is that they have three types of demographic which is low, mid, and high. This this defines not just how much money someone has but how they operate as a person, right? Typically, those that have more money, they hold themselves in higher regard.

Billy: What do you mean by operate?

Maximiliano: So they will it's the energy they hold themselves with, right? A higher demographic, quote unquote, doesn't define someone who's rich, it defines someone who acts rich in the sense of they're used to being in control of a conversation. They're used to being asked politely things. They're not used to jokesters. They're used to pure professionalism. And then a mid demographic, a mid dem will either be acting high dem or acting low dem. A low dem likes someone who's personable, funny, charismatic. Right? That's the three demographics and then there are three types of person which sit into each individual demographic, right? You have an emotional person. This person is going to be You're going to get this indication through they laugh at your jokes, if they open up a bit more, be a bit more yeah, speaking more sentences. Right? Logical people, they tend to maybe have a chuckle at your jokes, but they won't laugh. They'll be a bit more reserved in their body language. They'll open up but it will be in much more of like a yes, I do know someone actually. No, yeah, I do know someone that's been affected actually.

Billy: They'll hold themselves more seriously, so to say.

Maximiliano: Yes, it's so to say. Um and then you have people who we consider to be personal connections. Um these are the people who have experienced what we're trying to help with. In in very simple terms. Um now obviously based on the person I'm speaking to I will approach the conversation in a different way. Cuz but put it simply, if I'm speaking to a logical person and I try and pitch them with a bunch of jokes and anecdotes and I don't just give them logical facts, this is what we need, this is why we need it, can we have that? Then they're not going to be inclined to support our cause. Whereas if I approach them professional put together simple pitch, we have this many people affected, this is what we do to help that, can you help us? Then this person because of the way that I've approached them is more inclined to hear me out and to support. So the best way to answer your question is adaptively. Does that make sense?

Billy: Mhm. So how do you take Yeah, how do you take decisions on the spot? Adaptively, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean I remember when when you first when you were first like figuring out you did tell me it and I remember that was a very long conversation. And now that you've like narrowed down and like now you know what it is is is is it makes so much sense.

Maximiliano: Yeah.

Billy: Three types of three types of people, one more emotional, one logical. First thing that I really really really want to want to ask is about the criticisms that the fundraising community gets.

Maximiliano: Mhm.

Billy: Um I think everybody has heard in the UK the term chugger.

Maximiliano: Uh yeah.

Billy:

Maximiliano: I love that one.

Billy: Do you Do you it?

Maximiliano: Yeah.

Billy: Do you want to address it?

Maximiliano: Yeah, I would actually, yes. First of all, the term chugger I will not I have plenty to say about this, don't you worry. Um the first of all the term chugger applies to cash collectors. Um cash collector, the term originates from when cash collectors used to take the cash and nip off down the pub. That's what a chugger. Classic, pure, yes, right? If you expand um where the word comes from, it is defined by charity mugger. As in someone who mugs off a charity, right? Um

Billy: Okay, that's so it's a pretty serious accusation.

Maximiliano: It's a very serious accusation. You know, for me I find it quite offensive. Um because it implies that what I do is disservice to charity. When in actual fact 80% of the money for all charity comes from people like myself and our industry. So if we were if we were if we were mugging off these charities why would they work with us? Why would they continue to It It just doesn't make any sense to me. I think it's stupid. And in my experience, the people who throw that word around, they are the lower demographics. They are the people who you would expect to either be on benefits and generally all they do in from my standpoint, they're government muggers. I could call them goggers. I won't because it's stupid. Right?

Billy:

Maximiliano: But you get the point I'm making. Right? Yeah. So to address that term fully it's inaccurate and it shows a lack of education around how the industry actually works.

Billy: Yeah, well I think I think there's a lot of fake news about the industry. Um cuz I had a basically a year of experience in in fundraising. And I couldn't say more positive stuff about it. I think it was great. Great experience, uh great job. And not only that, but also the skills that teaches you that it teaches you is is just amazing. And the friends that you make. So, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I think I I do understand where you're coming from, for sure.

Billy: Yeah.

Maximiliano: Uh so, um knowing the criticism and the and what's happening today with the with all the media and all the what is known about fundraising, what do you reckon is going to be the future and and the major challenges?

Billy: Well, in terms of major challenges, I mean, it's going to be the the same challenges it always has been. I work in events, so we work in stalls. Um the challenge for us is always and will continue to be actually having stalls. Having sites to work in. Aside from that, it's just having a positive energy, having a good attitude, and having faith. The biggest challenge always will remain to be faith.

Maximiliano:

Billy: Genuinely belief that there are people out there who will have open hearts towards you, who will be willing to hear you out, and will be willing to part with some of their money to help these beautiful causes. That's the biggest challenge. Believing in it. That's my biggest job. Having belief in myself, in the causes, and in the process.

Maximiliano: Oh, man. That that is so that is so great. Like, I think there is so many charities going around that are great, that are just amazing. And then so unknown and and they have no funding whatsoever. And well, that's that's basically your job, to get them funding to the right courses.

Billy: As you were saying about, you know, there's so many charities in the UK, you have 101,000 registered charities. Okay? Um

Maximiliano: 101,000?

Billy: 101,000 and some change. It's mental, okay?

Maximiliano:

Billy: What bothers me most are the charities that operate, for want of a better word, dishonestly. Um you look at a cause like like right? To my knowledge, 8p on the pound goes to the cause. 92 p 92 p on every pound gets goes into admin fees.

Maximiliano: That is

Billy: It is something like 82 p on the pound goes into admin fees. Admin fees.

Maximiliano: Can we Can we Can we name these charities? Are we allowed to? Okay.

Billy: Do you want me to

Maximiliano: If If we're bleeping this, for you, the viewer, is a water charity in the UK. And the other one is What is the other one?

Billy: I don't actually know what they do, to be honest. They have a bunch of shops. The point is that there are certain charities which I would refuse to work with. And we do refuse to work with.

Maximiliano: I I really like um the cha- charity Have you heard about it?

Billy: No.

Maximiliano: 100% of whatever gets donated as a single person goes into the into the actual work.

Billy: So, it's it's So, it's run by volunteers. Is that what you mean?

Maximiliano: Um no. Uh admin fees are cuz it's a cuz it's water, and it's operated globally, it does need an admin.

Billy: Mhm.

Maximiliano: And the water it gets covered by events, like charity events, that they do, specifically for the purpose of of their admin costs.

Billy: That makes sense.

Maximiliano: So good. I I find that that's the best way to to do it.

Billy: Yeah. I think also a very common misconception, it goes back to what you were saying earlier about the reputation of fundraising. And you know specifically people being paid to fundraise. Is the inherently to operate on the scale that some of these charities do. They need a ton of money. Consistently. And the reality of the world we live in is that the government cannot afford to pay for 101,000 charities. We'd have no money as a country. Which means you have to spend money to go and make money. It's that simple.

Maximiliano: 100%

Billy: I had all my bills paid and I could not be homeless and still do what I do without being paid, I'd volunteer because I love my job that much. Unfortunately

Maximiliano: it?

Billy: I love this. This I There is nothing else I would rather do. I think it is a beautiful thing. Genuinely. I do.

Maximiliano: Is Is it really that that deep for you? As in

Billy: Yes. 100%

Maximiliano: you that much?

Billy: Move me? Yeah. I I When I When When I tell my friends and I tell my family what I do, I've had people laugh at me.

Maximiliano:

Billy: I've had people say why would you do that? I don't understand.

Maximiliano: that. Yeah.

Billy: Yeah.

Maximiliano:

Billy: People used to do that to me.

Maximiliano: And then when I look and I think about the very real very real impact of what I choose to do with my day-to-day. And the lives that it can touch in the you know the energy that it puts into society as a whole. Yes. For me it's that deep. I could go with my skill set right now and I could walk into basically any job I wanted to. Really. Obviously, within the similar kind of industry, right? But

Maximiliano: Yeah.

Billy: I could go and I could probably go and make myself hundreds of thousands of pounds. If I wanted to. Right? The point isn't that for me. The point is the the impact. You know? I never thought I never really thought that this is something I'd want to do before I joined the job. I was headhunted. They found my CV.

Maximiliano: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Same.

Billy: They asked me, "Do you want to come in for an open day?" I said, "Sure." Right? And

Maximiliano: Mhm.

Billy: was it always that way for me? Was it always because of the impact now? I found that love over time. And now you know, I view it much differently than when I first started. And that is the view that I impress on every single person that I train. It's why in our office we have such a high focus on what we do and why we do it, if that makes sense.

Maximiliano: Yeah, 100%. Yeah. I think one one thing that truly inspired me and I wear as a badge of honor. Um I did a charity when I was working uh before before you before you came to the industry. I was working for a char- a children's hospital charity. They were constructing a new center.

Billy: Mhm.

Maximiliano: And I remember that somebody in the admin team or the the admin team that that taught us, cuz obviously you get trained before you you do a campaign. Um somebody said us, "Look, this is the cost of a of a brick." And I remember, I don't know why how, but like I looked it up in my notes and like I don't know, 2 months after and I raised 100 grand, 120 grand for for this charity. And I remember counting the amount of bricks

Billy: Yeah.

Maximiliano: that were because of me.

Billy: I understand.

Maximiliano: Oh my god, that that was like Oh my god, I literally did an impact here.

Billy: Yeah, I do I do I do a similar thing.

Maximiliano:

Billy: Uh there was I I won fundraiser of the month um for a certain charity that focuses on nursing to do with those affected with dementia. Um and I figured out that I managed to get in the region of in 1 month, I managed to provide it was just about 15,000 hours of care. And obviously I know that like I personally am not doing these hours of care, obviously. It's credit to the nurses who go out and really just get involved in that, but for me I take pride in being able to be a part of that and have that be possible for all these families cuz you know without funds they can't operate. And without fundraisers, they don't have funds because and the unfortunate reality is is that while there are people out there who give of their own volition and who will just go out and chuck massive lump sums in, great. There are many people who do that and hats off to them. Majority of the population needs someone to inspire them to do it. And that is why we exist.

Maximiliano: That that is actually so beautiful, man. That that is so beautiful. I think um that is the gorgeous thing of working in charity that you can well, do do this, earn a living through creating an actual impact.

Billy: Mhm.

Maximiliano: in people, which is it it's not working for the government, it's not working for a private corporation with good interests. No, you're actually doing the work.

Billy: Yep.

Maximiliano: And if it's not you, you are the the person who's raising the money.

Billy: Yep.

Maximiliano: Yeah, it's it's I mean, it's so great. Um Uh I know we we we've been quite a bit of a la We have had a quite a bit of a long um podcast now, but I want to ask you three last questions. They're just three quick ones. One, what do you reckon are the interdisciplinary connections? So, let's say an accountant, because you used to study accounting.

Billy: Mhm.

Maximiliano: What would they get from listen listening to this podcast?

Billy: Well, I think the the biggest thing is when you when you truly love what you do, you'll never work a day in your life. Personally, I work a minimum of 60 hours a week every single week. Weekend, weekend. But, I'm more than happy to do it. I'm more than happy to do it, because it doesn't feel like work. When I'm on that stand outside that co-op in the rain, right? I'm not bothered. Right? Just put Just put on a coat. Hello, quick question. I'll have a laugh with people. Do you know what I mean? And I'd say that 98% of the people that I speak to or that I interact with leave that conversation with a smile and with some positive energy they didn't have before. The 2% falls into people that were just not happy anyway. You know?

Maximiliano:

Billy: So, there's not much I can do that.

Maximiliano: Yeah, that's a fair point. Yeah.

Billy: You know? And in terms of, you know, what they can take from the podcast for other disciplines, was a bartender for 5 years. Before I did this. I did night shifts, I did restaurants, I did pubs, I did hotels, you name it, I worked in. And for the longest time, I felt that cuz I was already so deep into that industry, which I didn't enjoy. Not really. It didn't really pay my bills either. To be honest. Right? I thought I couldn't go anywhere else.

Maximiliano: Bar work is not well paid.

Billy: It's not well paid. It's it's in fact I think it's a joke. But because of my now industry change, that what I'm trying to say is, if you're not happy in your current industry, there is nothing stopping you from going and getting into the one where you really want to be. Where you will be satisfied by your by what you do.

Maximiliano: I want to add something to that, which is we did not know about this industry.

Billy: Yeah. I had no idea.

Maximiliano: It might be if if you're willing to do the the next step and and change of industries, there might be an industry that you don't even know and that would be it, you know? Another quick question was the advice for learners. Basically, people that are in your same industry going and trying to be like you. Being the best drone racer of the country.

Billy: Mhm. Well, look, it's

Maximiliano: What what could you say to them?

Billy: Huh. Habits. Or key habits. The only thing that I do differently

Maximiliano: Habits.

Billy: is I have stronger habits. I network so hard. I ring so many people a week. In my office, out my office. In the industry, out the industry. So I have to estimate, it's 15 a week. Minimum. You do about three a day and then I'll be a bit chill on Saturday and Sunday cuz I'm just focusing on, you know, that's the gap that a lot of people don't fill. Is that if you want your knowledge if you want your skill set, if you want your mentality, then you have to go and get it. It won't come to you naturally. It doesn't just happen. What I see with a lot of new starters, they say, "Yeah, it'll come." It'll come. It won't.

Maximiliano:

Billy: Be nice. That's not how life works. If you want something to happen, take control. Make it happen.

Maximiliano: Yeah, I think that was their main thing I took from fundraising. Taking action and taking control. Now I literally take control over every little thing within my life. I want something to get done. I will pursue it to the end of the death day. So, yeah. No, I think that that's a fairly good advice. And the final question would be, do you have any book recommendations?

Billy: Book recommendations? George Orwell's 1987. I think is very well written. Um and the

Maximiliano: 1984 you mean?

Billy: Yeah, that's what I meant. Sorry, it's been a while.

Maximiliano:

Billy: Um yeah.

Maximiliano:

Billy: I don't know why I got it wrong, but yeah, that's very impactful book for me. I think the you know, not to get too political, but it's coming to fruition. You know? Another one that I really do

Maximiliano: Big Brother is watching.

Billy: Big Brother is always watching, bro. It is. You know, I walk down and see all these cameras. I mean, it's by the by, by the by. Another one that I would quite recommend is The Way of the Wolf by your man Jordan Belfort. Not to say that I morally agree or particularly like the man. I don't. I think he was a scumbag, but the systems, the ability of control he had over a room, and the way he puts that across, it's invaluable knowledge. Do I apply everything?

Maximiliano: Yeah, I think

Billy: But having it there and understanding it grows your capacity as a person.

Maximiliano: Yeah, I think towards that book I would recommend actually to separate that art from the artist.

Billy: Mhm.

Maximiliano: Well, uh thank you very much uh for being in this podcast.

Billy: Well, my pleasure.

Maximiliano: We have learned so much out of you.

Billy: Yeah, I think what I really wanted from the reason the reason I agreed to go on, I think it's cuz I just want to set the the record straight a little bit on fundraising as an industry. I think that as you said earlier, it's got quite a bad PR. And um I don't think it deserves it. I don't I truly I don't think it does. I think that people get it wrong. And they really do. I think that it's the same case with every industry. A couple bad apples have ruined the bunch. But in reality, those couple bad apples they get terminated. They get their badges taken away.

Maximiliano: Yeah.

Billy: And they leave the industry. The issue is that the impact they had on public eye is still there. And I think that you know, I want to see a world where people actually understand what we do and don't view us as as you said earlier, chuggers. That's not what we are.

Maximiliano: Billy, thank you very much for coming into this podcast. I really really appreciate it. For you listening out there, if you would like to learn more about Billy and the fundraising industry, you can contact him by contacting me first at our email down below in the description, and we will direct you to the closest offices in the fundraising industry. If not, you can Google it straight away. I'm sure there are plenty of fundraising officers out there. Now, I got one last announcement to make, and this is that we are starting with Patreon. So, what I will do is upload five short videos saying basically a recapitulation about what I've learned in each podcast. And not only that, but we will also send it through an email. Also, for the people that just will follow us in Patreon for no additional cost at all, we will be doing at seven posts every

Billy:

Maximiliano: day of the week. So, please check the link below

Billy:

Maximiliano: so that you guys could check us out in our Patreon account. Thank you very much for listening, and see you until the next one.