Aidan: Full Podcast Transcript
- beyondhorizon965
- Aug 2
- 41 min read
Host: Maximiliano Fabres
Guest: Nathaniel Fox-Williamson
Location: Bristol, UK
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Aidan: But, going into university, I kind of thought I want more of the hands-on stuff. I didn't want to do another 3 years of sitting down. And so, I pitched this. Oh, and I just had this one like director guy who I had never met before. He was just like, "I'm not sure quite what you're on about with like..." It was just the questions that he was asking me. I was like, I've got 5 minutes. So, if you show up and you're like, "I want to make a film on this." Oh, yeah. How does it relate to modern audiences? I got my... It's just... And they're just being like, "Okay, well, no one's going to go and see it then."
Maximiliano: Hello, guys. Welcome back to Beyond the Horizon podcast, the podcast where you expand your horizons of knowledge. Uh today with me... Oh my goodness, I forgot your surname. What's What's What's... Today with me Aidan...
Aidan: Aidan, what's?
Maximiliano: Yeah? Aidan? Yeah, I'm I'm doing I'm saying it correctly. All good? Yes? Okay. Who's a second-year uh university student um in uh production. Yes. In filmmaking.
Aidan: Filmmaking, yeah.
Maximiliano: What am I... Okay, let me do that whole intro again. Oh my goodness.
Aidan: That's going to go over well.
Maximiliano: No, shut the up, man. Okay, thank you. Thank you for your intro, man. Um sorry, if you could light up the candle. Do you got it? Yeah. Perfect. So, Aidan. Uh I got a couple questions on uh film production because it's it is quite... It's a very different field, I would say. Uh at least from my perspective.
Aidan: Yeah, not the typical degree that you go for.
Maximiliano: Yeah, no, not. Uh how did you come about it? Like What was the process?
Aidan: So, a bit of a long-winded answer, but when I was doing GCSEs, I decided to pick media studies. Purely just out of curiosity. So, media would have film in it. Also had stuff like magazines, um TV series, posters, all kind of stuff. And I really liked the film aspect about that. I think it was part of the teaching that I had at the time as well.
Maximiliano: Mhm.
Aidan: Um And so, after that, then deciding what to choose for A levels, I then actually thought, okay, well, why don't I try out film studies? And I did that, and I really, really liked it. Um one of the parts of the coursework, which was about 30 to 40% of the grade, was making a film yourself. So, applying all of the theoretical stuff that you'd built up, and putting it in a film in which you had complete control over everything.
Maximiliano: Mhm.
Aidan: So, you know, you you script wrote, you did, you know, all of the camera stuff, sound stuff, and then you did post as well. And I really, really enjoyed it. I just thought it was really fun. I really liked learning about the sort of film studies part of it, the theoretical side. But going into university, I kind of thought I want more of the hands-on stuff. I didn't want to do another 3 years of sitting down. Just theorizing about—
Maximiliano: theorizing over films, doing sort of like film critiques, you know, analyzing them.
Aidan: I find that stuff fun, but to a certain extent. And I was sort of just thinking at the end of uni, I want a job. You know, I want something where I can actually like—
Maximiliano: hence going to uni, right?
Aidan: I want something where I can say I actually find work doing that. And I knew that if I was to do film studies, you know, maybe like... I'm sure there are stuff out there, but I wanted something hands-on. I wanted to actually make films. So, that's why I decided to go for that.
Maximiliano: I got to say that that's that was the first thing that struck me about you. Uh that I thought like cuz in my worldview,
Aidan: Mhm.
Maximiliano: um art... uh like anything anybody who studies art is a little bit like wishy-washy and like not very... like has ADHD and like in very—
Aidan: Yeah.
Maximiliano: Like yeah. Uh in a very simplified way has ADHD um and I don't know. Doesn't like the structure as a general thing. But what uh uh something that really struck me about you is that you look like a very pragmatic, structured guy. Like I can tell like you make your bed in the morning. I just can tell for sure. Do you?
Aidan: Uh most most mornings.
Maximiliano: Of course you do. Of course.
Aidan: My room's pretty messy now, but yeah.
Maximiliano: Yeah, that's all right. Happens to everyone. But yeah, um like there's a lot of
Aidan: But yeah, I do make
Maximiliano: stereotypes around art students.
Aidan: Yeah. I think a lot of them are kind of harsh, especially when you look at what most people do day-to-day. I think art is a lot more involved, you know, in terms of you're going to watch a film at the end of the day. Throughout the day, you're going to listen to music, you know, other stuff. Whenever people go out for like hobbies, a lot of it is sort of art-based. I think a lot of people kind of have a bit of... I think it's a little bit snobby or kind of like "our art's whatever," push that to the side and then they find that lots of their life actually does revolve around it.
Maximiliano: Mhm.
Aidan: So, I think it kind of gets a bit of an unfair bad rap to start off with. I do think so. But, I do understand like when I walk around on campus talking to people, meeting people, seeing what kind of people are there, I like... I do get it. I do get it and there's a lot of people who I've talked to where I'm like, "Okay, cool. You're doing X art degree. What do you want to do when you leave?" And they have zero clue. And they're like, "I'm kind of just doing it." Not for the sake of doing it, but you see what I mean, right?
Maximiliano: Yeah, I I got to say Yeah. I tend to dislike people who don't take what they do seriously.
Aidan: Completely fair.
Maximiliano: As in You're here, you're paying a lot of money.
Aidan: You're you're here paying a lot of money cuz It's a lot of money.
Maximiliano: Yeah, I used to study in Germany. There there the education is free, but you're still wasting time. You're wasting resources. It doesn't matter what what it is, but
Aidan: Mhm.
Maximiliano: you're if you have no no point of direction at all what is the point of you doing that and what's the difference between you doing that or I don't know, you having five children. Like, if if literally you don't know what it's going to happen next. It it just I don't know. It's like there's no—I mean, yeah.
Aidan: sense of direction at all. I completely understand people not knowing what they want to do. When I talked to my dad, he said that he doesn't know what to do. He still doesn't to this day.
Maximiliano: Mhm.
Aidan: He just kind of says you have to pick something. Just pick something that you're at least relatively interested in. Have a look to see what it entails. If you like the look of it, do more research. Do it at A levels. Go to some talks about it. And then, you know, pick it for the degree. And then that's what I did. And I looked at a lot of different places. And I like the course on that um that UWE gives for film making.
Maximiliano: Mhm.
Aidan: Um just because like lots of them were pretty similar to be fair. Yeah. But for what I want to do, Bristol was a city and the course that they were offering I thought was I thought it was one of the best.
Maximiliano: I got to say it's not it's not that I don't... I dislike people without direction. It's mostly people who don't take it serious what they do.
Aidan: I get you.
Maximiliano: And that's that's what happens a lot with arts because you can go uh a lot more towards uh doing doing not your best work and putting it as an intentional thing. Yeah. Okay. So, something that you cannot do in accounting, for example.
Aidan: Yeah. Yeah. Like in accounting, if you up, You're done. Yeah. You like it will show. Like there's no there's there's nothing that you can do. Um is a lot more sort of subjective with explanations,
Maximiliano: Exactly. Like you can pull an explanation out of your ass and like you'll be okay.
Aidan: Yeah. You can. I would still have to argue it's still very much what you put in is what you get out.
Maximiliano: Yeah. Obviously.
Aidan: But like, yeah.
Maximiliano: Yeah, I get you.
Aidan: Mhm.
Maximiliano: So, and also having two uh siblings that dedicate their life towards art is uh I can see when somebody uh is actually putting it serious. Like the dedicate... I I know. One of my siblings the only thing that he did for 7 years straight was tattooing. That's it. The The only thing that he did.
Aidan: Okay. Yeah.
Maximiliano: Just drawing, tattooing. That's it. Five 5 to 6 days a week.
Aidan: Yeah.
Maximiliano: Like every day basically. All right. And then he went to vacations and then okay. Yeah, but but like that that focus that that's what that's what I I genuinely like in people.
Aidan: You admire yeah. And well, I do see that a lot with the—
Maximiliano: I got to say.
Aidan: Thank you. Yeah. I just like there's no way I would come to uni and like not want to work hard. You know, it's just sort of—
Maximiliano: How come?
Aidan: I would I would get completely frustrated and I would get really upset if I didn't like actually put my mind to stuff. Like yeah, sure there'll be periods where I I I slack off, you know, just like anyone. But when it actually comes down to it and deadlines are a couple months away for one of the modules I will work very hard and I will like submit everything that I need to submit. I go to all the lectures, all of the workshops, even including the ones that you don't need to do cuz you know, that's not your role for that specific module. I go to that if I have time. I just... you know, you're paying all this money. I want to get out of it as much as I can and so you know, showing up is sort of the least you can do.
Maximiliano: Mhm.
Aidan: Um and yeah, you know, I want to make some cool stuff. Make some good films and so you know, it's just it's just how it is. I guess.
Maximiliano: You You have like the... I I I don't know your artistic side, but you're very balanced in the... You're very directional for sure in the in the thing of putting your mind to something, and then you just go. You go go go go.
Aidan: Yeah.
Maximiliano: Well, tell me tell me a little bit about like your perspective towards what you do and so on. Cuz I want to know what what you actually do.
Aidan: So, the best way I can describe this is kind of how the uni issues all the work.
Maximiliano: Mhm.
Aidan: So, you got multiple modules. Like there'll be one based on industry where they'll say here's a Word document. You need to fill out this Word document of stuff that you've done outside of... not that kind of like... outside of uni. All the talks that you've been to, they'll host loads of talks. Like I said, it's kind of what you put in is what you get out. If you don't show up to those talks, you just have no clue. The reason why I can talk and I can, you know, sit and talk about what we talked about earlier where work will stagnate, you know, that kind of stuff is just what I've heard generally from lots of other filmmakers and people in the creative industries. Just because you showed up to the talks.
Maximiliano: showed up to talks, you showed up to lectures, you hear what other people have to say, you know, you kind of be a bit proactive, meet up with people.
Aidan: So, that's kind of like one of the modules. And it's also that one is a lot more personal. So, you kind of like make stuff itself. They also say one of the things is that you pick a specialism which can be sound, camera, directing, producing. I just I just picked camera cuz I thought, you know, that could that could be good and I kind of want to get into camera a bit more. It's the sort of one thing where I feel like I could learn a lot compared to what I sort of from the other ones. And so, they say, "Hey, you've got a few months. Make sure you have like sort of 10 setups of drama lighting or documentary lighting and and slash or experimental stuff that you're messing around with." So, that's one of them. Another one of them is—
Maximiliano: mess around with these particular things.
Aidan: Yeah. Well, that's they kind of, you know, it can be with um stuff like physical film. So, for the example that my tutor gave is he said, "This is expired film." Which is actually really interesting because a lot of it will give you like a really funky look once you get sort of processed. So, a lot of it has like lots of grain, it kind of looks greenish. If you don't sort of take off... I forgot what they are called... called. There's a thing on the back of film strips that often appears that you're supposed to kind of like scratch off. Yeah. If you don't do that, you kind of get these weird like like lightning bolt looking things that are ingrained into your film. I think they look pretty sick, but obviously when you're seeing that you're like, "What the is that? Like, get off my screen." So, I think it's just a bit of like a film nerd kind of thing, but that's one of the example of like stuff that you can do to sort of mess around with experimenting and that kind of thing.
Maximiliano: For being a filmmaker, you've been hitting that microphone like it's too much, man.
Aidan: Yeah, well.
Maximiliano: Hey, you can you can move it if you like. You can—
Aidan: that's fine. I keep on just when I'm doing hand movements.
Maximiliano: Are you sure? Like, you can you can elevate it a little bit.
Aidan: That's all good. That's okay.
Maximiliano: Yeah, you sure? Um
Aidan: But yeah, like the main part of it is kind of them saying, "So, for this module we want you to make an 8-minute short film, dramatic short film narrative." You need to... before you show up for the very first lecture you need to pitch something. You don't have to as long as there's like 10 to 15 pitches, that's fine. It ended up being something like 18, 19.
Maximiliano: Mhm.
Aidan: And so, I was kind of going in and I was like, "Well, I don't really have any sort of like burning ideas. I'll have a think." Ended up coming up with a pitch, pitching that. Didn't go through. Fair enough. They gave me feedback on anyways. And so it was kind of a thing where I was like, "I want... like this will be helpful for me to do even if I don't really want to do it." It's like I can't really say I love overly love speaking in front of like 30 to 40 people about a film pitch that I have. But if you get—
Maximiliano: And that's harsh when you pitch an idea that you had?
Aidan: Yeah. Yeah. Like completely yourself.
Maximiliano: god, it's terrible. Cuz when they say something against it, you're like—
Aidan: I know, but that was actually pretty funny. They had like five industry members at the front as well.
Maximiliano: Yeah. Yeah.
Aidan: So you had like a director, like a DOP. Um you had all of the tutors which have been in the industry for like 20 plus years.
Maximiliano: Okay. So they are actually... Okay. They actually they can look at your pitch. They can go, "Okay, this is... We're not going to make this." Or they can go, "Okay, I see what you're saying about that."
Aidan: And so I I pitched this and they were kind of, you know, I got to the questions. Oh, and I just had this one like director guy who I had never met before. And like to be fair, it wasn't just me. He asked other people really annoying questions.
Maximiliano: Mhm.
Aidan: He was just like, "Oh, I'm not sure quite what you're on about with like, you know, like these pagan versus Christian themes and how you're really going to get that into actualization."
Maximiliano: Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. Pagan versus Christian? No. No.
Aidan: That's simplifying it. The film that I had was like... um... So I go to the Lake District every—
Maximiliano: Mhm.
Aidan: a few times a year. I have family in the Lake District.
Maximiliano: All right.
Aidan: And it was going to be about the story of like a couple murders that happened in one of the lakes where they would dump the bodies inside these lakes. And then they find them like 10, 20 years later. Which happened in two lakes right next to each other around similar kind of times. Um and then they find the bodies perfectly preserved cuz it's freezing over there. And then the guys get arrested afterwards after like 20 years of living a normal life after that. And there's a lot in the Lake District... there's a lot of um... in that particular area where my grandparents are, there's a lot of kind of like old Viking sites, that kind of thing. Viking were like very recently turned into Christian. So, you can kind of see that there'll be like a cross... um like a kind of huge stone cross that have like Loki on it and that kind of thing. And so, that's what I was kind of like going to incorporate it into the story cuz I was like ah, it's quite cool one. It's a bit of like a folklore horror story anyways, so I might as well. And he was... yeah, he did not like—
Maximiliano: He didn't like the idea.
Aidan: He didn't like it. He was just confused like, "How do you know these sites? You know, what what are they? Are they going to... how are they going to be ingrained in the story?" It was just the questions that he was asking me and I was... I've got 5 minutes. You got 5 minutes to go out there and try and convince people of you that you want to make this film.
Maximiliano: Yeah. That you want to—
Aidan: And why do you want to all the way over to the Lake District have like a week straight of super early rises, filmmaking, you know, there's a lot that goes into it. 5 minutes, I'm not going to sit there and nitpick about the particular sites, that kind of thing. So, I thought it was a bit harsh, but yeah, it was it was worth it.
Maximiliano: I mean, but it's exactly what you need, you know, it's exactly what you need.
Aidan: They gave me some good feedback. I was a bit salty about it, but they gave me some—
Maximiliano: Yeah, of course, going to be salty, man.
Aidan: But you know, even if... like cuz like before going in, I was kind of like, "I probably haven't put as much work into this pitch as I should have." I was one of the first people to submit it, but it was still like whatever, I'm just going to do it anyways. It's just one of those things that's good for me to do, so.
Maximiliano: I mean, that's that's something... so when I um when I do an interview, like the more... the better I prepare it and do something really crazy. Like the better I prepare it—
Aidan: Mhm.
Maximiliano: the more views it has. Right. Okay. Uh-huh. Which is very, very weird. The better you prepare the interview, the more views it has.
Aidan: view it has. Yeah. Because the better the questions, the the—
Maximiliano: That makes sense. It's just, you know. And there's an aura to towards it. When you're like coming a little bit like nervous towards an interview one. And I'm guessing towards a movie or like—
Aidan: Mhm.
Maximiliano: to your presentation. You'll be like, "Ooh, I don't know if I... I don't know exactly the details." And those details are the ones that give you the confidence that when somebody asks you something, you can say—
Aidan: You have confidence in Yeah.
Maximiliano: You can basically slap them in the face.
Aidan: Yeah. You know, once I had that five-minute pitch, cuz it was originally going to be about this... um... It was like two Middle Eastern couples at the time. It was during like the '60s to '70s kind of time era. So, actually not that old when you really take things into consideration, but—
Maximiliano: Yeah. Yeah. But it's different. Yeah. Different better.
Aidan: "It is a lot to cover in just an 8-minute film. So, I would be completely open to making it just focused on one of the couples." And then one of the parts of the feedback that I got straight after was, "Oh, yeah. No, I think that's too much. You would need to make it about one of the couples." And I was like, "Yeah, well, I just did say that. Like I'm completely open to changing the script." And then he was just like, "No. No, but you know, it's just..." It was a... Yeah. It was like... It's just a bit frustrating, as you... You like... You can hear like I remember at the time I was like, "Come on. Like No way." Cuz you're sitting there in front of 30 or 40 people with these like industry members that start asking, like basically start like proper attacking your pitch.
Maximiliano: Yeah. You're like, "Oh, come..." You know. But it's good learning experience though. I think there's something that I've that I've learned um mainly because so I do business. That's that's that's my thing.
Aidan: thing.
Maximiliano: Um and when I tell something like... I when I have a conversation over the phone asking for advice to somebody who's... I want to say an industry expert but has like a lot more experience.
Aidan: Mhm.
Maximiliano: When I ask them, they rinse me. Every time.
Aidan: Yeah.
Maximiliano: Like there is... like it's it's just so crazy. Like—
Aidan: Yeah. It's... I'm just—
Maximiliano: I'm always so impressed on how terrible it... It's just like okay. I'm going to like... and I have to prepare myself now because the first time I called oh my god it was horrible because I wasn't even prepared for it. I thought it was an incredible idea that I blah blah blah.
Aidan: Yeah. Yeah and then they kind of—
Maximiliano: First question, no idea. Second question, no idea. Third, no idea. Boom boom boom. And they ask you like the fundamentals really. So the fundamentals on accounting, the fundamentals on marketing, fundamentals on sales, sales processes and all these things that come towards it that I'm sure they asked you something similar.
Aidan: Uh which is a fundamental of business which would be the fundamentals of filmmaking.
Maximiliano: Yeah. And they rinse you.
Aidan: Yeah they do. Yeah they do. Cuz you you have no clue. It's the first pitch and then they—
Maximiliano: like the whole time they're just sitting there with their nuts out.
Aidan: Yeah. "So um how are you going to go up there? All the way up there? It's difficult to land up there. Have you ever filmed there before?" It's like... Uh uh... And I thought that I answered... they asked me three or four questions. I can't remember exactly what some of them were. I thought I answered like a good two or three pretty damn well. I was like, "Hey, I just made this documentary. It's half an hour from that exact location."
Maximiliano: All right.
Aidan: "I've been there before. I know the area very well. There's a youth hostel right on this lake that we could that we could go to and we could, you know, then it's super easy access. We wouldn't have to bother about, you know, having some... waiting half an hour for a tractor to go past," you know, that kind of thing. Um But, yeah. And then I I don't know. So, it's—
Maximiliano: So, what do you reckon are like... So, for somebody who doesn't know anything about filmmaking,
Aidan: Uh-huh.
Maximiliano: what are the cornerstones? So, I'm going to say it in for business. For business, the cornerstones are sales,
Aidan: Mhm.
Maximiliano: sales and sales processes, marketing, accounting, uh overall business structure, and then product. Okay. So, if you have those, you kind of know where you're at. Right. Okay. So, it... And that's every time I I I make a pitch, I get rinsed on all those five. And there's of course other things, but yeah.
Aidan: I mean, the best way I can describe it is for filmmaking, you have three stages of production.
Maximiliano: Mhm.
Aidan: So, you got pre-production, all of the planning, the logistics, who are you going to get on your crew, who are the cast members, how are you going to get your actors there, you know, what kind of costumes are you using, all this stuff. All gets done.
Maximiliano: That's called what?
Aidan: Pre-production. Pre-production.
Maximiliano: and then when you're filming, which will be a very, like, if you have a timeline, the actual part where you're filming is like super, super small.
Aidan: Incredibly small.
Maximiliano: I know that. I know. I know. I did modeling for a while.
Aidan: Oh, seriously?
Maximiliano: And I I just remember it was like so quick, like the the Yeah. the actual experience.
Aidan: Because when you actually get there, they have everything super tight-knit. Everything. You're going to be here at this time cuz we need to be then over here at that time.
Maximiliano: In modeling, you pay uh fines if you don't show on time.
Aidan: Oh, really? That's pretty strict.
Maximiliano: Yeah. Okay. At least at the agency that I worked for.
Aidan: Yeah. Okay. Okay.
Maximiliano: Um
Aidan: But but yeah, so you have pre-production, which goes on for a good while. The actual production, which is filming, which is like barely anything. So, for the 8 minutes that we did um recently, we had four shooting days. And it's generally around like... going into specifics, generally around like four shots per hour depending on the setup. That can change. And then you've got like... you can do around one or two pages.
Maximiliano: Mhm.
Aidan: So, if you have a script, only one or two pages per whole day, which sounds like, "oh, you know, you could do more." Trust me, you can't. There's a lot more that goes into it. Unless you're going to do some kind of like guerrilla filmmaking kind of approach to it. Um
Maximiliano: Well, this is where influencers come about. Uh I know this because well, I did my research towards Paramount. Okay. Uh and influencers, when they're asked to to uh like participate in a movie,
Aidan: Mhm.
Maximiliano: they're so frustrated on how many times it takes for people to get the perfect angle.
Aidan: Oh, yeah. Oh, no, genuinely. Like Yeah, so the influencers being actors... Influencers are actors all the time. Uh-huh. And... But like properly, like actual actors, like like 80% of the time, if you've got actor on your shoot, they will just be waiting around most of the time. Like that that is the reality. If you're going into acting—
Maximiliano: Which is crazy.
Aidan: be prepared to wait for hours. I mean, I've seen you—
Maximiliano: like a crochet or something.
Aidan: Yeah. Like there are full feature films where there could be lots of stuff to do with like cosmetics. Like it could be a sci-fi film. And you'll have to sit in a chair for 10 hours just doing makeup. And then go on to shoot. Like it's not—
Maximiliano: It's not super like fast-paced fun kind of stuff.
Aidan: Mhm. You'll be sitting there waiting for hours and hours whilst the whole crew is super stressed out sorting stuff out. Um yeah, that's that's just the reality of it. But obviously with then when you see yourself on the big screen it's like all of the center of attention is now kind of back on you. So the whole time you're kind of waiting around—
Maximiliano: Screw this filming gig. It's just Are we doing anything?
Aidan: But then you you get there and it's like, "Oh, okay." And then the five seconds of fame.
Maximiliano: you you see yourself on the screen and you're like, "Wow, okay. That that's really cool, actually. That's really—"
Aidan: Mhm. Um But yeah, that's that's um... that's production. And then you got post-production, which is your editing, sorting out kind of like the order of your film, um color grading, sound editing, all of that jazz.
Maximiliano: Okay.
Aidan: Um so but for the pitches, they wouldn't really ask me on that. It would just be the logistical side. It would just be like... They don't expect you to have a script. They expect you to have a good idea of what you're really exploring is. So often they kind of say, "You've got a film about... You've got a film about like the Roman Empire."
Maximiliano: Mhm.
Aidan: A soldier going into war in the Roman Empire. But what is it actually about? And it could be actually about his kind of like psychology of leaving his family behind for the sort of greater good of his empire. That kind of thing. Like a way more sort of niche specific emotional part that you can kind of relate to.
Maximiliano: Yeah.
Aidan: Um That's what they'll ask you about. You know, they'll ask you how you're going to get there, you know, what's specific... What is the mood? What's the feel and the tone of the film? That kind of stuff.
Maximiliano: Okay. So, I wrote I I wrote a book for my like last project in school. Yeah. Um and I remember like the talkings with uh the guy that that was the teacher that was... Yeah. Because he used to be like... he used to be a publisher. He He used to work for a publisher. So, Publishers are ruthless. It's really difficult to get published.
Aidan: It's insane. like
Maximiliano: It's actually nuts. It was 80 pages 80 pages. The first go, it took me 10 days because it was a story about a guy traveling to a certain place and basically going to hell and then coming back uh I'm sorry... to his normal life. Okay? That was That was like the basic idea. Took me 10 days to write the first script. Took me eight months to um to rewrite every single chapter at least seven times at least seven times so that the guy would think okay, this is acceptable. This is This is like barely like like and stuff. Oh my god. And now when I read the the book, I'm like oh what the I I now I now I understand because I've read many books now and so on.
Aidan: You kind of get that your writing style that kind of thing was off.
Maximiliano: It's not the writing style It's not the style, I would say. It's It's not It's nothing about the style. It's about the how it flows and how characters introduced that kind of thing.
Aidan: Yeah. So, how the actual story goes. The story beats that kind of thing.
Maximiliano: Yeah, it's it's nothing about the writing the actual writing because the writing is basically what like what adjectives do you use or how do you describe a scene something happening that style. But the actual storyline is the most difficult thing to do. So after doing the book he told me that most people that he worked with he made he made made them do a storyline of scenes so he did like this Disney type of thing. Where they basically write the idea of each major scene and then just tie them together with the verbs. So he uses images and verbs and then you just like—
Aidan: Okay, sounds It it sounds very understandable
Maximiliano: but he didn't say it before I was writing the book like when I was writing the book.
Aidan: Yeah, basically. Yeah, I mean that's why so many films are based on books even ones when you would kind of be like oh I would have no idea that would be originally based on like a previous book or script that kind of thing but loads of them are genuinely like bloody loads.
Maximiliano: Yeah.
Aidan: Yeah, like I know people like my auntie to be an English teacher you have to get a book published.
Maximiliano: Wait, what?
Aidan: sure if you're going to teach English at a degree level. A degree? Maybe kind of A level that kind of Okay. You have to have a published book. Don't fact check that but I'm like 90% certain that's a thing.
Maximiliano: Let's fact check that right now.
Aidan: I could be completely wrong, but I remember for her to be like a full-on teacher and what she wanted to go to, she needed to get something published. And it took her genuinely years.
Maximiliano: Ooh. Do Do Do have to uh what is it? Um have Pay council tax. What the What What do people search? Yeah. Do English teachers have to Um have have uh a book published uh uh in England. No, English teachers in England do not have to have a book published to teach. Does it say for specifically what level? No, it just say that uh are chosen based on pedagogical skills. Okay. Okay. Do you have to publish? Uh no, but they do have to Okay, they do have to like publish something in acade- academy academic—
Aidan: What do you mean? academia saying like at least so they do have to publish something.
Maximiliano: published. Yeah, get something published. Whether it's like a—
Aidan: critique
Maximiliano: Yeah. poem or something like that. Okay. And have meet industry standards. I don't I was a fast reader. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. But that kind of thing. You know what I'm talking about. Google AI like it explains in too much detail. I know. Yeah. You said I'm like, what the It'll be like a sea wall and it'll just keep on going down.
Aidan: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Maximiliano: Okay, fair enough. Um and okay, so what's your What happens? So, take me through like a Imagine you're a director and you're creating a movie right now. It doesn't have to be like but just explain the whole process, okay? Right. Okay. to me, a simple man who doesn't know anything about film production.
Aidan: Okay. Um So, it's not always the director that initially has the idea.
Maximiliano: Okay.
Aidan: of the time they're brought on a lot of like a later stage. Or a book.
Maximiliano: Yeah. Oh, wait, what? Wait, a later stage? What?
Aidan: Yeah. So, initially, like often it is, but often it's also like a producer who steps forward and say, I want to make a film about this. I want to see a film about X subject. So, like—
Maximiliano: Put a subject? Roman soldier going into battle, right?
Aidan: Okay, you you just literally take whatever. Okay, yeah.
Maximiliano: I told you what I was talking about earlier. Yeah, I know. Oh, is it? Yeah. Empire? Yeah. Oh, no, it's about the It's about the UK. Is it not? Yeah. Yeah. England.
Aidan: Well, anyways. Anyways, so it can be the director, but a lot of the time it's also the producer. Um and so they have this idea and you need to get a crew together. So, but if you if you're going to do it in the industry, you would have to pitch it to people. Okay, so you get the idea. You get the idea. Let's say You you explore that a bit more. Roman going into battle. Like, who is this character? Why am I You would ask fundamental questions about why you would want to make this film in the first place. Why do you want to make this film? What connections do you have to this character? Okay. How is it different?
Maximiliano: Mhm.
Aidan: it fit in a modern context? All this kind of stuff. And so you would then—
Maximiliano: it fit in a modern—
Aidan: You would be surprised, trust me, cuz they they're going to be like, well, why the would anyone want want want that? How does it relate to modern audiences? Trust me. You can—
Maximiliano: I would say shut the up, man.
Aidan: cannot say that. If you say shut the I would love to say that as well, especially if it's something base like historically, but they're wanting you because they at the end of the day it's about making money. Most films actually don't make any money at all.
Maximiliano: I know.
Aidan: So if you show up and you're like I want to make a film on this. Oh, yeah, how does it relate to modern audiences? Shut the up, like it's just They're just going to okay, well, no one's going to go and see it then. How is it going to sell basically?
Maximiliano: in the cinema, yeah.
Aidan: And you will have to sell sell that there. Like you could adapt it so much to the point where you completely change things on its head. Okay. where it fits and you have like a concrete like yes, we are going to make your pitch.
Maximiliano: I feel this is like creating a product. So for for me who doesn't know anything about So when you when you create well, it's literally creating the product.
Aidan: Yeah. But instead of a product you have a heat story Yeah. to tell.
Maximiliano: Yeah.
Aidan: I mean it works in the exact same way. Like I mean we like me like I said, we still pitch them, but it's a different system cuz we know that our films are going to get made. So there's not really as much of that. Oh, okay. But they'll still force us like in earlier modules in the first year where we could sort of submit what we want to make. They would say, oh, yeah, sure, go to that. They would have to make us pitch it afterwards for essentially no reason other than to get used to pitching. Cuz you apparently have to pitch a lot like a lot a lot. There will be people who will sit down—
Maximiliano: If I was your teacher, like I would rinse you every time. Okay. Yeah. I mean Yeah. In a non-sexual way.
Aidan: Okay. All right. I was not thinking Okay. You know what? Never mind. Um Okay.
Maximiliano: Um
Aidan: but yeah, there'll be, you know, essentially more producers and investors who will be listening to pitches all day.
Maximiliano: Yeah.
Aidan: Like 7:00 a.m. to 7:00 p.m. 5 to 10-minute pitches. You know, you kind of you need to stand out and everything.
Maximiliano: Oh my god. This is That's literally a job in in Well, in Yeah. all all uh private equity? Right.
Aidan: You've heard about it, yeah?
Maximiliano: Yeah. Yeah. So all what a senior exec- executive does is just gets pitched the whole day.
Aidan: Yeah. Yeah. And just decides after.
Maximiliano: Yeah. But yeah, yeah, okay, okay, okay. I'm I'm getting it.
Aidan: So there'll be some sort of film meet-up, film Talk people there and And you just talk talk talk talk. Um And so let's say like they say yeah, right. Mhm. And you get X amount of money investment. You now have to get together a crew. You get together a crew. You would have to do a lot of research. You can't just be like, "Oh yeah, this person did this and they were good in that. Let's get them over here." If I'm making a film about a Roman soldier set in historical period, I would specifically go out of my way to look for people who have done historical dramas, period pieces, that kind of thing before. What kind What kind of like style of camera would work? Do I use, you know? What aesthetic am I going for? What am I really trying to say with the film? All of this will go into what crew do you pick? Right?
Maximiliano: Mhm. Okay, so that's like the foreplay to to the—
Aidan: I mean, obviously like there's a lot more that goes into it. Like what? Just you know. It can be like logistical sides of it. It'll be, you know. How do we get to sites? How do we get the funding? Uh Yeah. Like who is going to exhibit our film? How many times are we going How many days are we it's going to take to produce the film?
Maximiliano: Okay, yeah, yeah. All of that All of that All of that stuff.
Aidan: Crossing equipment from you know, where are we going to find people
Maximiliano: Oh, I actually know a guy who owns a business that does that. I think He rents a Yeah, he rents uh cameras and uh lights for for I think for your uni. One of the biggest contracted.
Aidan: Yeah. UWE owns all of their equipment.
Maximiliano: Huh?
Aidan: UWE owns all of their equipment. All of their film making equipment, yeah.
Maximiliano: My bad then then no.
Aidan: I believe cuz it's always there.
Maximiliano: Oh, okay.
Aidan: Yeah, there's like um So, there's a film making block Okay. in which there will be multiple studios. And there's like a it's called central loans. There's just basically a massive room kind of warehouse looking room with all of the film making equipment in there.
Maximiliano: I think I need a first year student just to like bring a camera to to eh? And then just like I mean ask it for like to be here for 3 years straight. 3 years 3 years straight.
Aidan: Honestly, you should but the thing is is that they're super super like um I don't even say it's like Sorry if this is bad but like anal about what you're allowed to bring out of uni. Cuz it all needs to be risk assessed. It all needs to be like
Maximiliano: Well, is it insured or
Aidan: Well, yeah. You need to be like what you're doing, when you're doing it. All of that kind of stuff. You basically have to do like a mini producing job to even just get the equipment out. And I tried to do that first year for cuz I essentially managed to get like a volunteering gig with um like HUK Gloustershire for like a commercial kind of thing. Okay. And I remember being like, I do not want to do this on my phone, especially if I'm a filmmaking student. I'm going to see if I can get equipment. Emailed a load of people, tried to get out. They were like, just just make next year. Plus. Um so, you'd probably have to get the second or third year, if not somebody else you would have to hire them just cuz the uni does not really overly support you bringing out the equipment for your own projects, which is really annoying.
Maximiliano: I'm not I'm not doing it.
Aidan: Super annoying because I would have loved to first year you have loads of time.
Maximiliano: Mhm.
Aidan: I think they should just be like in the periods where you've got second and third years planning and doing post-production. I think equipment should be more or less free game as long as you do risk assess it like properly.
Maximiliano: Yeah.
Aidan: why you're doing this. This is what you're learning and whatever. But yeah, that's that's just one of the sort of critiques of the course and stuff like that. Um Yeah, what was I talking about? Um but yeah, anyways, so
Maximiliano: Okay, you do the the pre the pre-production basically. Yeah. Then
Aidan: So, then you've got you you want to get a director who's you could talk to and you collaborate with. You'll be on like a similar mind to them. You don't want to have conflicting about ideas about what said film will want to be.
Maximiliano: Sorry. Th- This is told from the perspective of who? Who who are you?
Aidan: So, if I'm the producer and I had the idea for a film and I went out and I pitched the film Yeah. to other producers and investors. I've got
Maximiliano: You want to get another producer in?
Aidan: Well, I mean, no, you wouldn't want to you would want to get a director. You want to make your crew. Okay. Because a director is a big part of the style. So, like if I was to get for said Roman film Quentin Tarantino that just wouldn't make sense or it would be a very very weird film, you know?
Maximiliano: I mean, it would be it would be nice to I I would watch it, but I would I would definitely watch it, man.
Aidan: It's something that he would be interested in, and it's not Yeah, probably. something that much people But, you know, it's a strange decision. But, you know what I'm talking about. You would have to speak pick a particular director for the job.
Maximiliano: Mhm.
Aidan: Um And so, you have your crew together. And now, you've got script writers. And the director will also help with that, and the producer, I believe, will also still help with the script writing process. Yeah. Which as you've seen with your book, can take ages.
Maximiliano: Oh my god, yes.
Aidan: And um
Maximiliano: I mean, I think I should have stayed with that book for like 2 more years. If I think I thought I would have kept on going for 2 more years, then I would have reached the level of like an a very good published book. So, something I that I actually would enjoy. Yeah. You know, like I would pay for it. Okay. Okay. So, yeah. Okay. It's never too late. Um Um not for now, no. I mean, I think I think my writing is uh thing is, I'm more methodical now. So, and I know more stuff, and I like I've I've for the podcast, for example, I research all the time, like ways of explaining stories, ways of telling stories. So, yeah. You You do become better over time. And I've read more books, which helps quite a lot. Um but, yeah. I think it would take very like at least a year at least a year at least a year. Okay. But, yeah. Um
Aidan: But, yeah, then you get to the sort of the point where you'll kind of have more or less a similar process to what we do at my uni.
Maximiliano: Mhm.
Aidan: There'll be a few people working on the script.
Maximiliano: Mhm.
Aidan: And then, the sort of director will give out jobs to everyone. They were like, "This is what we're planning to achieve. Can you do research around that? What specifics like they will say to the sound person, "Are you like equipped to deal with these kind of mics? This is the kind of setup that we're looking for. Um are you like competent in actually doing that? You know what I mean? Um And so everyone will be like sort of given stuff more or less to do pre-production, but it's mainly down to the producer and the director and the um and the like DOP to figure out really what the film mood and tone is going to be like.
Maximiliano: Okay.
Aidan: Um And so once you've got that, it's you know, you've sourced actors, got locations. All of it needs to be um like permitted. So, filming in Bristol, you know, like if I was going to make some sort of like historical film about Anglo-Saxons in Bristol, I would have to talk to Bristol Film Office, say, "Hey, we're going to be filming here at this time with this kind of setup."
Maximiliano: Really? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Aidan: It depends on the county.
Maximiliano: You have to ask for permission?
Aidan: I know. Yeah. That's crazy. I wish I didn't. I wish it was more like you can just show up. It does make sense, trust me. It's the first So, when you first arrive on the course, it's one of the main things that they drill into
Maximiliano: Really?
Aidan: at all. If you were to go out and you were to film like especially if it's like something serious
Maximiliano: Mhm.
Aidan: in public without permission, you you wouldn't be let like on the course again. They would just say, "Absolutely not."
Maximiliano: What like what type of thing would be serious?
Aidan: Well, in public. one of the things that they showed us was a production that I can't remember if it was one that they like green-lit or if was something from another uni around or like film college around the area.
Maximiliano: It probably was their own fault. Okay. I think so. Probably, yeah. Yeah. If they're telling you that one is probably them.
Aidan: Um but it would involve with like firearms, like a fake gun like kind of thing.
Maximiliano: Oh,
Aidan: So, you can imagine. Apparently, there was this one time where these students went out. They were going to record like this not shootout, but there was a guy who was supposed to be dead on the floor with blood all on him and a guy over him with a fake gun. And apparently, it was like a area where the police kind of patrol regardless anyways.
Maximiliano: Oh my god.
Aidan: Police turn the corner in their car and see this.
Maximiliano: After after a loud bang, probably. Trouble, like big trouble.
Aidan: Yeah? Like Okay. I mean, the uni would have been sued for a lot of money. Yeah. Most probably.
Maximiliano: Yeah.
Aidan: Um that kind of thing. The guy could have been shot as well. That's Yes. The guy definitely could have been shot. Could have been shot. Yeah. I mean, that's like an extreme example, right? Like most of the time, it's fairly
Maximiliano: I'm sure that happens a lot in America, though.
Aidan: Yeah. Yeah, I think you know, it's like when I do the risk assessment, like I think I there's still like a part of it where it's like your film does your film have any sort of like firearms and guns or anything like that in there? Oh, they check you. You cannot tick yes on that. They they just the uni just won't greenlight it at all.
Maximiliano: Really?
Aidan: I think it like depends on the subject, the manner in which you're doing it.
Maximiliano: okay. But you are not allowed guns at all. No guns. If it was like knives, that kind of thing What? Knives? Okay. Machetes? And anything like that?
Aidan: depends on what context. Like if you're in the kitchen and you've got a knife like obviously, it's fine. But, if it's like in public especially
Maximiliano: A machete.
Aidan: with a knife or a machete then they would just say no. You just no. Okay. just say no. Okay.
Maximiliano: Yeah.
Aidan: Sad, but yeah. It applies.
Maximiliano: Yeah, exactly.
Aidan: But, yeah. Um
Maximiliano: I mean, I would have like if I would have studied like first thing machete a guy with a machete. Yeah. in public. Yeah, of course. Why not? I mean
Aidan: It scares just people off. It does like limit what you can do over so yeah. Um
Maximiliano: Yeah.
Aidan: But Quite a bit. Yeah, it's quite a bit so kind of fair enough. Um Yeah.
Maximiliano: Yeah. Okay, I see. Okay, then you get that and once you're Okay. So, you have all of that.
Aidan: Mhm.
Maximiliano: You have planned everything. You have got your your permissions and so on.
Aidan: Yeah. Yeah, for
Maximiliano: What's happening next?
Aidan: Um Well, I mean the main thing you're ready to do then is you know, if you've got all the permissions, you've got all the equipment set up. You pick up said equipment. You would be doing filming like It depends on the scale of the production that you're on. So, like if we were to film on um you know, down some random if we were to film on this street.
Maximiliano: Mhm.
Aidan: We would like if I if we really wanted to we could shut off the street for like an hour or so.
Maximiliano: Really?
Aidan: Yeah, like with a few like caveats like obviously residents if they need to get into the street they can.
Maximiliano: Mhm.
Aidan: But, it's more like taking off random people who were just walking past that kind of thing.
Maximiliano: Mhm.
Aidan: Um And obviously like high super high budget films, feature films will shut off whole super popular streets. And get hundreds of extras in. Because you can imagine walking down the street seeing like Keanu Reeves and like Quentin Tarantino and then like some huge off camera. You know, you're going to be staring. You're probably going to mess around with it. Yeah. It's just impossible to work in really. Again. done and it has actually been done well as in intentionally on some films I've watched, especially older films where people didn't really have as much of a grasp on like filming.
Maximiliano: Influencers or like figures like hype figures.
Aidan: Yeah, they would more just sort of like look and say like what's going on there. What the is that? That's a That's a film. That's filming, you know, there's like going and like mess up the production and everything like that. Um Yeah. So but yeah.
Maximiliano: Yeah. Yeah, then then you would
Aidan: It's just down to filming really. So
Maximiliano: Pranks have like gone over the roof, man. Pranks. Pranks as a general thing.
Aidan: Yeah. I mean, it's like Yeah. It's sort of like big culture on YouTube like 10 years ago. Yeah. Like pranks that kind of thing. It's just like messing around with people doing normal things.
Maximiliano: Yeah. It's like I don't know. Saying that you're going to put a bomb in a bank. It's It's stuff like It's It's like
Aidan: I'm not sure if I've seen one of them. I've seen I've seen like some like blasting music in libraries and that kind of thing.
Maximiliano: Yeah, but it but it's like on the same like type of Like it it's just like dumb things that you you're like Why? Why would you ever like yeah.
Aidan: It's just sort of like getting yourself in trouble for views.
Maximiliano: For no reason, yeah. Beyond reason, yeah. Yeah. Please guys, if somebody's watching, please don't quote me on that one, okay? Like do you not say that I told you to put a bomb in a bank and then just say it was a prank, okay? Just in case some idiot is watching. Okay. Um You produce now post-production, yeah?
Aidan: Mhm.
Maximiliano: Uh and that's where you come in as in your specialty, sound and all of that
Aidan: No. I mean Yeah. So, for us my uni I would be doing stuff all throughout if it's sound. Less so in pre-production just cuz it's kind of like
Maximiliano: Getting the stick.
Aidan: Well, yeah, exactly. There's not really as much to do. You just you I would just talk to the director like, "Hey, as long as I sort of show up to the group meetings where they talk about this is what the film's about. Let's read through the script. What specifically does it involve? You know, what kind of setups they have? That's all you really kind of as long as you have like a general idea of what's going to be going on on the day, then that's all you need to do. It's like a few days prior I might start reading the lines for the specific days I'm going to be shooting on, which would be easier for like recording sound on like a boom pole and that kind of thing. Um shoots again. You're crucial throughout that if you're doing sound. Um obviously. And then post-production if it's a higher budget film, you would obviously get like a different person to come in and do sound editing, but cuz we've got smaller crews of around like 10 to 15 people, it would be um I would just do the sound editing myself. So, yeah. Um it means like so, for the film that I'm doing sound editing on now, which isn't the one that I'm going to submit for like my assessment of what I've done for this module.
Maximiliano: What what are you going to submit?
Aidan: It was the probably the one that I produced. It was the sort of It was um
Maximiliano: So, you choosing what you want to be assessed?
Aidan: Yeah, well, because at the start of the module they they are just like get yourself into groups. This is the assessment. This is what you have to do.
Maximiliano: Literally literally you could have like one teammate and then that's it.
Aidan: No, you can't just have one teammate. No, I mean They you know. No. So, They'll be like you pitch the films the way this uni works. You pitch the films. Okay. Okay. You then get start developing a script from that. Once you've got the green light and all the pictures have been done you would have some sort of meeting where they go through this is what how it's going to go. After that meeting maybe people go to the pub. Maybe there'll be like an event where they'll like
Maximiliano: Yeah, that is kind of how it was. Oh, okay. Yeah, I'm I'm that serious. I mean, it's pretty obvious. Like as soon as it gets on you're like what am I actually going to do for this module? I need to get myself on a team. If everybody's going to the pub afterwards you're obviously going to go to the pub to see if you can get yourself on a film. Yeah, makes sense. Have you got anyone for this? Like kind of thing. Um
Aidan: As yeah. Yeah, that's that's that's what I did. And uh Yeah, landed like a producing role. So I was super busy throughout pre-production for that. Um But yeah, but but then for sound you then go on doing sound editing. Um in which you would then talk about like you would also get involved with music. That kind of thing. Usually I find that music is made outside. So by someone else maybe on the music course or um Yeah, or by somebody who does music on the course that kind of thing.
Maximiliano: Mhm. Yeah. Fair enough. Yeah. So that's basically the whole cycle of
Aidan: Pretty much, yeah.
Maximiliano: of making movie. Yeah. What do you reckon is like the thing that uh is most difficult uh about the whole thing, the whole process? Or I would say the most challenging because it can be easy, but but it's just like challenging to set it up or like whatever it is. Most challenging to set up. of Or just difficult in general.
Aidan: Probably just getting like solid locations and cast for your film. That actually show up on time. That are enthusiastic, know the role well, have talked to the director, will like will be there and will help you out cuz you aren't paying them.
Maximiliano: Mhm.
Aidan: Like you can, but it's going to come out of our own pockets and we're already paying the union, so we don't really want to be doing that.
Maximiliano: I I get Yeah, yeah.
Aidan: Yeah, so so like on some I know some unions they give you like a set budget for films, but it wouldn't be much. It'd be like a couple hundred pounds. Um but usually you have to source that yourself, which isn't too difficult, you know, you do a little sort of like fundraiser kind of thing. You put some posts up online. You know, you it's not it's not out of reach or anything.
Maximiliano: I guess they it very difficult for the union to
Aidan: It wouldn't be, no. They could do that, yeah. I mean
Maximiliano: So I'm I'm just thinking about like what if the union with the money that they you put into the union, they would like invest it in something and then just off of the profits.
Aidan: What do you mean invest it? Like either like you do?
Maximiliano: Yeah. Just invest in some random thing. I
Aidan: And then you got an art department or like an art budget, so to say. I seriously doubt they would be allowed. Because like I'm not going to call it gambling because I know it's very strategic, but you can imagine if we give them money and then they lose set money, it's like I mean
Maximiliano: Universities do do that though.
Aidan: Do they?
Maximiliano: Yeah, they
Aidan: aware of that. This university of it do that cuz we don't get any budget for that.
Maximiliano: Is it a private uni? The one that you're in? No? Yes?
Aidan: Not quite sure.
Maximiliano: Okay. So, basically, the whole idea of the loan is to maintain the economy. Yeah. That's why the UK and the US are so big on university loans. They help grow the economy. Why? Because the university sell those Well, I don't know if you do the I don't know from who you get the the loan. I think it's from a loan entity, isn't it? So, you get it from a bank and then you or you get it with the uni. Uh no, you wouldn't get it with the uni, I don't think. You have to pay the uni once you've got it, so. Okay, so probably either the uni buys a loan or they sell the loan or they just get a little bit of money off of it. Probably a lot of money. Uh at once and then, you know, they What What do you reckon they live I mean, it's not that difficult to maintain a uni once you have like the project setting done and like professors and like the actual building. Cuz they're all the the buildings are all bought already. Like this like I mean This is a very, very lucrative business. Yeah. So, what do they do? They normally overpay people in certain positions. Or they just gamble it away, as you say. I mean, invest it. Uh-huh. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And things like pensions. Yeah. But, I think I think it wouldn't be that that difficult. Or like, for example, a it would be a good idea for like the business department for the profits of I don't know a fund to go to the art thing. Maybe you can do a collaboration with like a the business side. So those business students or economic students who want to be I don't know day traders or whatever then set up a fund of of your money and they don't get paid paid in experience. But you get paid in you get a fund. I mean there's easier ways to get a fund but yeah. But I mean is to get a regular fund. That's what I think. Maybe. Yeah. Yeah. I like to set up the stuff of systems. I really love that. Yeah. Okay. Fair. But yeah, well. Um Well, thank you very much for being here Aiden. I think Yeah, there's brother Oh no, the the editor just like fell asleep in the chair apparently. So thank you very much for being here Aiden. Guys, thank you very much for listening once again on your weekly podcast. Hopefully this gave you a little bit of a perspective on what it goes into what is it that filmmaking is and how does it go. I think I actually I finally understand what what happens. Yeah, what happens like Yeah, behind closed curtains. Do you say that? I guess so. Okay. Anyway. Thank you very much, guys. Uh please follow us, uh subscribe, like, and all of that type of things. Um and see you next week.
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